Sweden Dealing with Covid the Right Way

[jyl]

Maybe you can do that work.

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

The Nordics are comparable in certain areas, and not in several others. Not all Nordics are part of the EU, or EFTA. Some are republics, some are monarchies. One is very oil-rich/dependent, One is an island in the middle of the ocean with a tiny population, etc.

Also, Sweden is a stand-out among the Nordics in many categories.

It has the largest population, by far.
It has the most highly-populated urban centers.
It has the highest number of refugee immigrants, by far.
It has the highest percentage of people 70+ years old.

And regarding their massive refugee population: They brought with them poor health, disease, and greater all-cause mortality rates.


So if you are going to single out Sweden for per-capita C19 deaths amongst only the Nordics, it would be prudent to include all other pertinent comparable data as well.
Population, population density, number of population-dense metros, population demographics, healthcare quality/access/infrastructure, pre-COVID mortality rates (all-cause and specific/relevant morbidities), pre-COVID volumes for international travel (and to where), domestic travel, trade/commerce, foreign tourism (and from where), border porosity/immigration numbers/policies, granted asylums, etc.

Then include the testing and death-reporting/COD protocols for each country, which can be vastly different and can/have changed mid-stream in some instances.

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

And regarding their massive refugee population: They brought with them poor health, disease, and greater all-cause mortality rates... So if you are going to single out Sweden for per-capita C19 deaths amongst only the Nordics, it would be prudent to include all other pertinent comparable data as well.
Population, population density, number of population-dense metros, population demographics, healthcare quality/access/infrastructure, pre-COVID mortality rates (all-cause and specific/relevant morbidities), pre-COVID volumes for international travel (and to where), domestic travel, trade/commerce, foreign tourism (and from where), border porosity/immigration numbers/policies, granted asylums, etc... Then include the testing and death-reporting/COD protocols for each country, which can be vastly different and can/have changed mid-stream in some instances.

This is 100% correct. If I was at work and someone tried to compare data without this sort of rigor, I couldn’t possibly draw a conclusion based on it. No one has any idea if what Sweden did was smart or not... yet.

Originally Posted by jyl

Maybe you can do that work.

Yeah, it’s easier just to look at a simple chart.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by jyl

Maybe you can do that work.

Sure. If you want to fund my research project/paper, let me know!

In the meantime, you should at least be able to acknowledge that there isn't enough meaningful data for any conclusive comparison between Sweden and the other Nordics WRT C19.

[Matt Smith]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

what a funny thread!

Ok Shaun, I am genuinely curious about that statement. What makes it funny?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Matt Smith

Ok Shaun, I am genuinely curious about that statement. What makes it funny?

The mental gymnastics Matt.

I'm still unclear why those fighting for the Sweden plan aren't jumping ship and going for the Madagascar plan. 26 million people and only 2 deaths. We should have done the Madagascar plan.

[dewolf]

This Madagascar plan

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/unproven-herbal-remedy-against-covid-19-could-fuel-drug-resistant-malaria-scientists

[jyl]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

This is 100% correct. If I was at work and someone tried to compare data without this sort of rigor, I couldn’t possibly draw a conclusion based on it. No one has any idea if what Sweden did was smart or not... yet.


Yeah, it’s easier just to look at a simple chart.

At some ratio of deaths per capita, you would surely agree that the chart starts to have meaning? Are the differences between Sweden and the other Nordics great enough to explain away a 1.5:1 ratio - maybe. How about a 3:1 ratio? A 5:1 ratio? Or are you in the camp that you're unable to draw any conclusion, even tentatively, no matter how large the disparity in death rates?

[gsxrken]

Certainly the disparity tells us something is different. It could very well be their approach. But there’s disparities to be found all over the place.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

And again, deaths per capita, Sweden vs. other non-Nordics:



More costly and longer/deadlier than the UK, Belgium, Italy, Spain, and France?

Curious why nobody seems interested in looking critically at (and comparing) the countries that are doing worse than Sweden, with much more strict lock-downs...

Only comparing Sweden with other Nordics is like only comparing 3-4 US states that border one-another, regardless of other factors.
It's even more irrelevant if you include Iceland (just because it's also a Nordic country).
So many other factors and variables at play...

Belgium is massively over reporting.
Anybody who dies in a nursery home ends up on that count. like 98 years old, coughs once and drops dead : on the covid death count.
Not even tested.

It's been the topic of much debate already.

[livi]

In Sweden half of the deaths were from elderly nursery homes which our government has turned into a massive immigration integration experiment, flooded with uneducated, illeterate hourly paid newcomers with no comprehension of avoiding spreading infectious deseases.
In hospital/ICU wards an unproportionally large percentage of patients are immigrants.
Being a global humanitarian superpower takes it tolls..

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Belgium is massively over reporting.
Anybody who dies in a nursery home ends up on that count. like 98 years old, coughs once and drops dead : on the covid death count.
Not even tested.

It's been the topic of much debate already.

Sounds right. It's basically the same here now. Lab confirmed diagnosis of COVID is no longer required (as of mid April) to be counted on the cases/deaths count. And it's not required to be a primary COD for a death count either.

In many (most?) cases here, the average age of COVID deaths is higher than actual life expectancy averages.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by livi

In Sweden half of the deaths were from elderly nursery homes which our government has turned into a massive immigration integration experiment, flooded with uneducated, illeterate hourly paid newcomers with no comprehension of avoiding spreading infectious deseases.
In hospital/ICU wards an unproportionally large percentage of patients are immigrants.
Being a global humanitarian superpower takes it tolls..

Hush you! That does not fit the narrative, and as a physician living in Sweden you can't possibly know more than people posting here!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by livi

In Sweden half of the deaths were from elderly nursery homes which our government has turned into a massive immigration integration experiment, flooded with uneducated, illeterate hourly paid newcomers with no comprehension of avoiding spreading infectious deseases.
In hospital/ICU wards an unproportionally large percentage of patients are immigrants.
Being a global humanitarian superpower takes it tolls..

More objective data proving why it was a bad idea destined to fail.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

More objective data proving why it was a bad idea destined to fail.

If by "it" you mean allowing open-border mass refugee immigration, than you are finally making sense.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

causality is a bi ch. or is that causation, I never know. Either way, when you have mass refugee immigration, you socially distance the F out of the country.

[livi]

To misquote Bubba J: This is an easy thread to follow when you´re hammered.

[sc_rufctr]

Thanks for the comments Markus. It's interesting to get and insider perspective.

[livi]

As far as Sweden standing out as the per capita no one death toll country, it is important to add that we have an enourmous geographic diversity case wise. As an example, where I live in the most southern part (Skane) we have only 20% of the cases compared to the Stockholm region. The capitol region have roughly double the population of Skane but more than 10 times number of deaths.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by livi

In Sweden half of the deaths were from elderly nursery homes which our government has turned into a massive immigration integration experiment, flooded with uneducated, illeterate hourly paid newcomers with no comprehension of avoiding spreading infectious deseases.
In hospital/ICU wards an unproportionally large percentage of patients are immigrants.
Being a global humanitarian superpower takes it tolls...

How are the other Nordic countries handling things with respect to importing immigrants? For example, Iceland seems like they would have a far smaller problem with this, and would not be comparable to Sweden in this regard. To a large extent, comparing Sweden to other Nordic countries does not make a lot of sense.

[ckissick]

An informative article, one of very few that talks about not just the disease and the deaths, but also about the impact on the economy:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/sweden-stayed-open-coronavirus-pandemic-model-future/story?id=70666450