F6F Hellkat
 

Random airplane question:

I see Corsairs and Wildcats, Tigercats, Bearcats... etc at airshows. I have never seen a Hellkat in person. Why are they so rare since so many deployed during WWII?

12k+ built

The Wikipedia page lists 7 as currently airworthy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat

as with most WW2 fighter planes, a bunch of them got

shot down
crashed in training
shot down as target drones
sold to allies
lost in Korea as RC flying bombs
sold second hand to private owners
given to museums

the few privatly owned war birds out there, got bought by somebody who typically bought a couple of them, kept 1 and used the others to part out.

I reckon more mustangs ended up in the private ownership because
- slightly more made
- USAF moved to jets faster then the USN (jet's on carriers wasn't as easy)
- Landbased planes probably had an easier maintenance life (no salt, no hard landings)
- USAF could get planes sold a bit easier then the Navy (come pick em up at AFB such and such vs Navy had to offload em, dismantel em at the port ) So Navy probably didn't bother as much and sold more for scrap then for flight.

Tigercats and Bearcats are also pretty rare these days. You just happen to be at airshows where a few types are showing up and another another type (Hellcats) are not. Pure happenstance.

Corsairs were produced well into the '50s and and used by foreign air forces into the 1970s. Mustangs, though production ended in 1945, were used by foreign governments into the '70s and even the Dominican Republic retired its last Mustangs in the early 1980s. So, more of those types survived.

Concur. I think the reason you see so many more Mustangs, Spitfires, and Corsairs is largely because people recognized early on how beautiful and unique they were when compared to other aircraft of the time and made it a point to keep them.

Supposedly only one Helldiver left flying.

Currently six Tigercats in existence, three of them flying.

Lots of P-51 Mustangs were used by National Guard units long after WWII.

When the war ended, thousands of "surplus" airplanes were chopped up to recycle the aluminum.
P-51s were still valuable military tools, so there's still plenty around.

The F6F was a game changer. Like the P-38 and P-51.

Coral Sea before was a bloody draw but expansion plans were thwarted.
The Thatch Weave, unit coordination, and many sacrifices saved the day.

I think it was at following Wake Island when the Japanese Navy first encountered them, thinking they were Wildcats and the usual tricks would work. No.
Hellcats were very rugged, fast, and almost as agile as the A6-M Zero/Zeke.
Wake was an overwhelming victory for the USA.

The Hellcat had something like a 15:1 kill ratio. Second to the F-15 at 108:0 in air-to-air.

That makes sense. Doesn't account for more Wildcats though...

Some Naval reserve units flew Hellcats after the war but they were quickly phased out, sent to storage yards (Litchfield Park, AZ) and scrapped. Foreign Govts wanted the best, most affordable planes for their navies and that would have been the Corsair at the time.

Few Wildcats and Hellcats survived scrapping after the war. Some that are flying today were saved by farsighted individuals with the financial means or even pulled out of Lake Michigan.

Bearcats and Tigercats (developed after the Hellcat) flew with some active and reserve units after the war but they were never manufactured in large number to begin with as jet aircraft showed that the writing was on the wall.

The few Tigercats flying today spent their post military lives fighting forest fires and were retired in the '60s and '70s. If it weren't for their fire fighting roles there probably wouldn't be any Tigercats except one or two museum examples.

Bearcats and Tigercats never really served in WW2.

The first Blue Angels were Hellcats., BTW.

Got stuck in Wake for a week and a half after one of our jets broke bringing them back from Japan. It was eerie knowing what had occurred there.

Because they were no good for Unlimited Air Racing in Reno. That is what started the resurgence in the Warbirds.

There is a gorgeous Tigercat kept at Van Nuys. Tom Cruise keeps his P51 there as well.

In the mid-90's I was wandering around Camarillo Airport and stumbled across the Commerative Air Force collection in their new hanger. I got to talking with an older gentleman working on one of the two or three planes they had at the time. It was the actual plane he had worked on during the Korean War, his name was in the log book. He had discovered it at the airport a few miles from his home after 45 years.

Here is the F8F today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHaMtc3vrA

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587347725.jpg


Late 70’s Confederate Air Force Harlingen Tx. Always amazing aircraft there. Aren’t cutoffs coming back?

While flying from Oakland to Okinawa in 1958, our Connie stopped at Wake to refuel while we had lunch. They told me we were going to eat in a "mess hall" so you can imagine what was going through the head this literal six year old. I remember there was still a lot of war wreckage on the beach we rode by on the bus that took us from the plane to eat. Here I am posing by an anchor out front of the mess hall.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587351227.jpg

Our airplane.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587351227.jpg

some got restored after recovered from the bottom of the sea.. full list.

Grumman F6F Hellcat Registry - A Warbirds Resource Group Site

edgemar - you are in So Cal...have you been to Chino Planes of Fame Museum? They have all kinds of WW2 warbirds there and fly a different one each month after a seminar on it. Pretty sure I have seen a Hellcat there.

Enjoy!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LOfmK4j8CIE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7b9e751i3mo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

John, maybe you meant Midway?
Wake was bombed several hours after Pearl Harbor, and was lost two weeks later.
It remained in Japanese control for the rest of the war.

Four Marine F4F Wildcats defended Wake after the initial bombing raid, and sank a Japanese destroyer in a failed invasion attempt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wake_Island

http://www.oldgloryprints.com/Cat_an..._Over_Wake.jpg

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/w...ake-Island.jpg

I seem to remember that the F6F saw its first major air to air combat during a raid on Wake Island on October 5th and 6th 1943, where it proved its superiority over the Zero.

It was still the Confederate Air Force then.

They do not list a Hellcat in their inventory... they have a Jug, which some confuse with a Hellcat at a glance.

They have, maybe, 120 planes there from 10-12 different countries.

The Mustang and Corsair stayed in inventory longer because they were also good ground attack platforms. A bit like the F4 Phantom had long inventory times because it was versatile. The Hellcat was a great adversary to the Japanese planes and freed the Corsair to carry the ground attack role and overcome its carrier teething problems. There were many Japanese pilots met their end thinking the Hellcat was a Wildcat due to the similar shapes and fighting them in the vertical.

omg. Yes I meant Midway. Midway. Not sure how I got those mixed up. Been watching some old war propaganda films WW2 Flying Fighters, War in the Pacific, War in Europe, Battle of Britain and trying to absorb all the details and stats.
Thx for correcting that.

I went to the Chino airshow a few years back... Wow! Most warbirds I've ever seen flying at once.

This is an older video but it's still worth watching. Lots of info and they fold the wings near the end.

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cool video.
How easy do those wings fold back! Amazing.

Leroy Grumman figured out that folding mechanism with some paper clips and 3x5 cards, I read. Only Wildcat and Hellcat...

Everything else just folded straight up.

I built a model Hcat as a kid and it had that hinge as part of the kit, so the wings twisted and folded back on the kit, too. Very cool (Monagram, I think)
https://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/lacombemcf6f.htm

My father-in-law flew both the Corsair and Hellcat toward the end of WW2 through Korea. His favorite was the Corsair but he thought the Hellcat was much easier to fly.

We went to a Confederate Air show in the early 1980's and it was the first time he had seen a Corsair in about 25 years. It was the emotional I have ever seen him.

I'd love to be able to talk to all those guys over a nice bourbon and compare experiences...

I interviewed a USMC Huey turned Phantom driver from Vietnam for a project in one of my senior year college courses. Great stories. He ultimately regretted the transition saying he didn't fit in with the fighter guys as they were too competitive in everything they did. He did remember busting Mach 2 though!

I knew of the Corsair's air-to-ground capabilities, not as familiar with the Mustang's. Probably due to the fact that the USMC flew F4Us vice P-51s.

^^ During the Korean war many Mustangs were brought out of storage and guard units were activated for the ground attack role.

The Mustangs were certainly capable but were also vulnerable to ground fire from below. A hit to the cooling system/radiator resulted in a many losses.

As you probably know, Corsairs were also used for (mostly) ground attack in Korea but the air cooled radials could take more punishment without having to worry about loss of coolant.

The Jug was much better in this role, but for some reason they were really not used in Korea.... just turned into ingots. With its radial, it could take a ton of punishment and still make it back. We built as many P-47's as P-51's also.

The Navy/Marines (Corsair) didn't fly AAF planes (Mustang), generally. They avoided liquid-cooled engines like the plague.

The Corsair also shot down at least one Mig-15 in Korea when the pilot came to play on the low and slow arena. The only piston engine aircraft to do so in Korea. AFAIK.

The Skyraider went on to build on the rugged radial CAS role.

Until it got the Merlin engine, the Mustang was used quite a bit in WWII for ground attack.

In SoCal we get a lot of air shows and I have seen a Hellcat a few times, also a rare P-38. Lots of Mustangs still around. A family friend with "too much money" owned a P-51 for a while and though a rated airline pilot it scared the sheit out of him. Add a little too much throttle on takeoff and the prop torque would flip the plane over. He sold it fairly quickly.

I remember Spitfire pilots talking about that too, and the Spit had much narrower gear. Adding throttle too quickly was the issue.

That's an interesting point. P-47s did serve with some National Guard units after the war (though in smaller numbers compared to the Mustang). I wonder why they weren't sent over.