Smith and Wesson Model 19
 

My son is graduating from law school in a few weeks and he wants a revolver for his graduation present.

Does anyone here have any first hand experience with:

https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/performance-center-model-19-carry-comp

S&W Model 19?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588514086.jpg

He will be working in Norfolk, Va and will have a carry permit.

Thanks!

I've had a heavier N frame M27 for 4 decades now, but back then most LEOs carried a M19. Is he gonna have .357 or .38 loads in it? I was never a 9mm fan....but now stick a Ruger LC9S in my pocket when I carry on my property...it ain't a .357mag...but it's there ;). Can't go wrong with a M19...but that would not be my choice...

Give him yer Combat Commander :D!

I love Model 19's. They are wonderful little guns. You will not find a revolver with a smoother action, or one that is more accurate. There is one downside, however, and that is the fact that they are a bit small, and therefor a bit lightly built, to handle a steady diet of .357 mag ammunition. I shoot mine pretty much exclusively with .38 Specials, and only load it with .357 mags to confirm point of impact with them, and then if I ever carry it. They will eventually crack the forcing cone when used with a lot of .357 mag ammo.

I like the original, classic configuration in blued steel. I really, really do not like ported barrels on revolvers. They are not only unnecessary, they preclude the use of plain lead bullets. They still make their "Classic" line, which are more or less exactly like the originals.

Here is my mid 1980's Model 19:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588517772.jpg

I'll put my M27 up against a M19 any day ...other than weight...it's just better...in every way...imnsho :). But neither are designed for concealed carry either. Gawd bless Col. Jeff C.....but if I'm gonna carry something that large...a Combat Commander in .45ACP...yep!

I've had one of those since '80 too...and other than an 870 with buckshot...it's the spoon I want in my hand if the shtf.

.357 out of a lighter M19 can't be fun...unless yer Higgins :D.

Thanks for the below, Jeff.

Although he has shot my Vaquero quite a bit, this will be his first revolver...and trust me, KC, the boy has plenty of options to choose from:cool:

His choice of weapon, one I am happy to buy - he has done very well.

I hear ya Paul...that said, and strictly my opinion, has he thought his options through in a concealed carry spoon and stopping power? He's allowed to make mistakes....he's earned the right....and can always correct it with another one :D.

.357 is just not a good round for CC in a large revolver with an exposed hammer...even S&W has better options imo.

Col Cooper was correct 50 years ago...and still is... RIP.

Has he ever shot a .357 out of a lighter revolver? Seriously...my Combat Commander (all steel) and baby Ruger (9mm) are absolutely tame by comparison...

He should shoot one first with what he intends to load it with (if he never has)...jmo.

And now I'll shut up ;)

Favorite Quotes from Jeff Cooper » Sight M1911

Thank you for the Col Cooper reference!

Echoing KC. Is this a carry gun, or does he simply want a revolver?

I carried a S&W 442 for a while before switching to a small Sig 9mm. The revolver was just to porky to carry. And even in .38, it was no fun to shoot.

If he wants a revolver in .357, I would go right to a 686.

If he wants a carry gun, I would not get a revolver.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting perspectives...thank you guys.

I'll ask, but he is stubborn. I have no idea where he gets it: his Mom? :D

Both my sons are stubborn as well. I've long maintained they got it from their mother.

He’s gonna end up with a stable of guns, seems like a great first horse.

I have a 442 for CCW, I like the simplicity. Will eventually get a baby Glock. I seem to prefer guns without safeties :-)

I will go ahead and cast a vote for a revolver as a carry gun. A round butt Model 19, like the one Paul is considering, would make a wonderful carry gun. No, they are not as ultimately concealable as a small auto, but under the right circumstances they are not difficult to conceal. Simply wearing a dinner jacket is one easy way to hide them. When it would be inappropriate (too obvious) to wear something that would adequately conceal one, carry something else.

And yes, absolutely, such a small revolver shooting full power .357 mag ammunition is "no fun" to shoot. Besides, like I said earlier, it's hard on the gun anyway. That's why we don't do it, beyond, like I said, verifying point of aim. In any defensive situation you will never notice the recoil. The other guy will be having even less fun than you. So don't worry about that - shoot .38 Specials for fun and practice, and load it up with .357 mags for "social" (Col. Cooper reference there) work.

most lawyers like Rugers

I'll try not to hold that against Ruger.

If he wants a revolver and for concealed carry he could consider the Model 36. Just a little puppy sized gun that shoots .38 Spl very well. Even hickok45 likes them.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588541956.JPG

I can't shut up :D....

I read JC's articles back in the 70s....did he "mellow" later on? All I remember is his suggesting that lots of calibers were fine....so long as it began with a 4 :).

I recall the .44 mag was king back then...with a .45 ACP being 95% as effective in "stopping power"....and he did not like the .3** options if given a choice..

If I were buying a new revolver now....686 ;)

But I'm not :D...

Now I'll shut up....until my next post :)

686 or it's blued or nickle brother the 586...bigger frame able to handle the 357.

Early production ones are my preference.

Never cared for the 19...why have something that is going to break eventually if used with the ammo stated it uses on the barrel?

The same is true of the Colt 1911 10MM...the 10mm cracks the slide.


S&W models 15 or 14...the 15 is aka Combat Master piece wt 4" B

Or Colt Trooper 38 spl wt 4" B

CZ 75 P01 Compact...9MM accepted by NATO after rigorous testing..carried by the Czech Police...

CZ makes one he11 of a line of spoons at a reasonable price for what you get ..labour rates are cheaper n the Czech Republic than in Germany for essentially the same quality of spoons.

One of the funniest things Col. Cooper ever said was in regards to the "sub caliber" (as he called them) autoloaders, like the .380 ACP. He certainly didn't hide his disdain for them... It went something like "if you ever wind up having to shoot someone with one of those (and he finds out about it), he is not only going to be very upset with you, you will also be unarmed".

I have watched some of his Vids...they are fun as you get to see stuff go bang..

Yep I like the big frame S&W 357 Mags...especially the Registered ones...

Back long long ago my WW2 Bomber Pilot friend showed me a 5 screw 357 Mag 3.5 " B...that he had just bought..his comments were that it was the spoon that FBI agents carried.

J Edgar was presented with one of the first Smith 357 Mags when they first came out in 35...

And no amount of arguing about it will change your mind, right? :)

IMHO the quality on S&W is still there to this day, you can't go wrong with any of their products. I went and looked at a couple reviews of that carry 19 and it looks solid.

That said, that is a big and heavy piece for a carry gun 34 ounces. Why not go down to a classic 36 / 60 as posted above? Lighter (19 oz), smaller, no internal lock, and the .38+P will make a fine self defense round unless he needs it in the woods against dangerous game as well. And if you buy a classic non-lock gun like that, you can always get your money out of it when it is time to try something else.

Cheers,

G

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588551479.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588551523.jpg

S&W’s Performances Center turns a truly great firearm into a sublime masterpiece. Treated my self a couple years ago and never regretted the few extra bucks. The trigger, OMG, did I mention the trigger? And the finishing level is off the charts.

Whichever revolver you select, it may be worth seeing if there is a Performance Center version. The lad will have a rare treasure that he will never forget.

The 19 that Seahawk posted is a performance center gun. $1112 MSRP :eek:
That reinforces my point. You can get a hell of a nice S&W pre-lock gun for less than that ...

G

NICE gun Mike.

Mama said....if ya ain't got something nice to say...

Mike....you have a beautiful wife, beautuful dogs, and a gun :D

I didn't always listen ;)

Beautiful handgun and fantastic gift Paul! Congrats to your son, David

Yes, congratulations to young Jack. :)

I have one of those little S&W Air Weight 38 specials, (model 36?), we cannot CC in CA. but I always thought of CC as a defense against being mugged or carjacked, close range type of thing. A 38 special FMJ round to the head or upper chest is more than enough unless you are being carjacked by a grizzly bear.

If I was far enough away from the bad guy, I'd try to run or take cover even if I was armed. There are rare instances where an armed citizen has stopped a mass shooter, (Texas church recently), that might want for more gun and only works if the operator is really trained and skilled, like the Texas church dude. Your son probably fits in that category.

This little guy:
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588605330.jpg

And Mike, that pistol of yours looks too nice to fire! :)

I shot Joe Bob's Air Weight with a 357 load. No bueno!

There is no reason to do that. A 38 special FMJ round will kill a horse.

I went shooting with a buddy and I was firing my .38 and he was running .38 through his .357 and we were having fun killing paper targets.

He handed me his .357 and let me shoot it. He had two .38s and then a hot load .357 round. Wow, what a difference. I was not expecting the hot load. I knew then why some guys like a .357 stopping power.

And that's the appeal of .45ACP....more "stopping power" than a .357 mag...but in a VERY tame gun to control and shoot :).

And if ya think a .357 mag bites....a .44 mag is brutal :D

I have 'em all....and Gawd bless JMB and the Col :)

I am shedding a whole bunch of handguns. Well, "shedding" means giving them to my son.

I decided to focus on two handguns, my Belgium Browning 9m and my Ruger Vacaro in Colt .45.

The Vacaro is my home defense weapon and I am extremely comfortable with it. It fits me well and has features that make it extremely practical in the role I have assigned it.

The Browning I bought in 1988 from a friend of mine. It was my SV2 carry pistol on two cruises and during GW one. It has a lot of memories in the magazine. That plus it is easy on my wrists!

I also decided to get really competent with one specific pistol. I had a lot of work done to the gun by a custom shop in Virginia and I could not be more pleased. In the past year I have put a lot of rounds though it and, with my son's instruction, have become very, very proficient with it: The beauty of having you own range:cool:

Again, I appreciate all the input. Jack is a really solid young man and this is his choice and my pleasure to get it for him.

My son has a no dash Model 19 and loves it. It is a total tack driver. Congratulations to young Jack and tell him to enjoy his sidearm!

Well, yeah, even a .22 will kill a horse if you put one behind the ear. The main reason for not shooting .357 (or .44) mag out of a snubbie is the significantly reduced performance. Their performance is reduced to essentially not much more than that of the .38 and .44 Specials.

Oh, and I do like your little J-frame Smith. Those are just nifty little revolvers. The real beauty of guns like that is that those of who legally can, actually do carry them. Once a carry piece exceeds a certain size, and we have to make special allowances in our clothing to hide them, they tend to get left at home.

Here are my two smallest carry guns, the ones I grab in the summer, when shorts and tee shirts are the norm. Granted, to be honest, I really don't carry much at all, unless it's out in the woods, but if I really feel I should, these two are pretty concealable.

The revolver is the old Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44 Special. It's about the size of your little Smith, it just has bigger holes in it. I think it weighs about 17 ounces. With careful handloading, I manage to launch a 250 grain semi-wadcutter at about 850 fps out of this little guy. Recoil is what I would call "noticeable", but I'm pretty sure it hurts more on the other end.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1588611925.jpg

That's so cool Paul...

But this thread is far from over....it's who we are :D!

I love it - what a coincidence, my Vaquero is my "home defense" handgun as well. Some folks might question the use of a single action for this duty, but, as you have found, they have a lot going for them.

The biggest (smallest?) issue in my house is the size of my wife's hands. Even a Model 19, or even a gun like Denis's, is simply too big for her to comfortably reach the trigger. A single action is about all she can hold comfortably. That is our biggest driving factor.

Beyond that, its simplicity of operation and its dead reliability are appealing as well. They are also one of the "safest" action types to keep around fully loaded. And, finally, there is nothing wrong with the grand old .45 Colt as a defensive round. In a bigger, heavier gun like the Vaquero, its recoil and blast are not too intimidating for a lady to practice with, which is a big deal as well.

My hand spoons stay "safe".
Fiocchi defensive load buckshot out of a 20" bbl.....spread is shaped like football at say 30'...and very tame compared to regular buck. Game over when it's not a "game" anymore.

The stopping power of 4 .45ACP rounds...all at once....or so they say ;).

I like big guns that really go “boom” and I have a few but the key to CC is the concealed part, IMO. That little 5-shot Airweight is so light and small that you can put it in your jeans pocket or jacket pocket and it hardly sags. I can completely conceal it in the palm of my hand! I could pull it out of my front pants pocket and have it in my hand without someone noticing, if they weren’t really paying attention. :)

I like all of the guns mentioned or pictured in this thread. They are all true self-defense or close combat weapons. Not being the expert that some of you guys are on guns, I just stick to the premium brands and it’s done well for me.