We are on the same page as you well know.

Anyway i want to.express solidarity with the heroic BLM and Antifa protestors who are fighting for racial justice in a White male dominated racist society.

As the Chik a Fil Ceo said White people should shine the shoes of black people out of shame for being racist. I can catgorically say that i have shined the shoes that black people are wearing..i have atoned for the sins of being white in colour while in my heart i am a black lesbian woman.

^^^^ As a white lesbian man.... I applaud yer courage to "come out of the closet"! It's stuffy in there anywaze :D

Agreed. People need to embrace the inevitability of this situation. We are currently turning our society upside down for a placebo effect. If you think masks are effective read up on micron filtration, everything short of an N95 is trying to stop a mosquito with a chain link fence, and even the N95 isn’t totally effective. Oh yeah, and many of the Chinese made N95 masks are being tested and found to filter worse than advertised. Even if a vaccine is developed it will likely be less than 100% effective. Even after years of the flu our vaccine is frequently less than 50% effective. Unless you have the ability to completely isolate from humanity you will likely get this virus. And unless you are part of a select few at risk groups the odds are very good that you will be totally fine.

Modern medicine is both amazing and feeble at the same time. Let’s not forget that there still isn’t a vaccine for the 1918 flu that killed millions.

Too bad you feel that way. It must be very depressing.

Fortunately I have a different outlook on life.

Yesterday MrsWD and I tried out our new handgun. Shot a box of shells through it. I expected the products to be good, and sure enough, fifty out of fifty fired right off. The gun never jammed. Seems like the institutions that made them are fairly trustworthy.

We drive on highways with cars coming the other way at closing speeds of over 100 mph. I trust that the other driver will stay on their side of the road because they almost always do. I must be awful to drive in terror ( do you drive?), never trusting the individual coming at you won't hit you head on.

We buy food at the supermarket and haven't contracted food poisoning in our combined 113 years. We trust that the food is healthy, and so far so good. Eating must be scary for you.

I've had good experiences with most of the institutions and individuals I encounter - not perfect by any means, but enough that I have faith that most of my future encounters will be OK. You have apparently have had very bad luck in life. I'm sorry.

Too bad I disgust you. I'm really not that bad.

I am often surprised to see such weak arguments here. It's like suggesting "all pilots will eventually be killed in a crash". No reason to monitor fuel or weight and balance. No point in honing your skill at a stabilized approach, no reason to annual the aircraft or perform a pre-flight check.

While you are reading all about micron filtration ( which is nearly irrelevant with viral transmission in public spaces), bone up on viral load, aerosol projection, and the inverse square law. :rolleyes:

A mask should not be your 1st defense, it should be your last when distancing is not possible.

Besides, a mask makes me less scared! ;)

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night! If you think 6 ft is the magic bullet for a virus that transmits via air and surface contact and can survive on both mediums then have at it. Also a discussion of mask effectiveness is very relevant, I’ve seen several studies that conclude most cloth masks are under 10% effective at filtering particles the size of most viruses. Not to mention that the average person has no idea how to properly wear and use a mask, and many studies suggest that the average person touches their face more frequently when wearing a mask.

Still begs the question, are you willing to destroy the economy and a substantial part of the social fabric of our nation while you wait months for a vaccine that might not be effective? Or worse, an effective vaccine isn’t able to be developed? Because most service businesses won’t make it with 6 ft spacing and occupancy requirements, and you’re signing a death warrant for sports, concerts, schools, movie theatres, and many retail stores.

It’s really sad, I think we have a lot of members here that are totally detached from the average working stiff and have no idea how this is decimating the lives of millions of Americans. I grew up poor, worked construction before going back to college, worked my way through college, and have a lot of blue collar friends and family. This is destroying lives more effectively than the virus, and I think many of you don’t realize it because you don’t see it.

the article lists a lot of bad cases. but it does not mean that all cases are like that.
obviously those in ICU are bad, but that we knew..

So it's a bit of a narrow point of view of things.. obviously those who had it bad.. will say "hey it's really bad".. That doesn't mean it's very bad for a large percentage of the populace...

Look at New Zealand right now. No cases at the moment and they can get back to some normalcy. The difference is their citizens took the issue seriously where here we have spoiled kids out defying common sense.

Stopping a virus sized particle and stopping the droplets they travel on are two different things.

I need numbers so I went and looked for them:

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-ways-media-misleading-record-spike-florida/

However, once you study the data on who these states are testing and why testing is going up yet deaths are still declining every day, it becomes clear that the reality is the exact opposite of the panic the media is pushing.

The reality is that what happened in New York City in March was an anomaly, and its unique dynamic is not migrating to other states. In fact, the virus continues to prove itself less deadly than previously thought and likely becoming milder as time goes on. Several weeks into the superficial spike in cases, deaths are plummeting, reaching the lowest level on Sunday since the beginning of the epidemic and down 90 percent since the peak.

Plenty of charts and graphs, far too many to past.

Enjoy.

One of the best posts I’ve seen in a long time...

It’s too bad this tread has turned into a mess. We all have strong feelings about COVID based on the impact is has had on the communities we live and work in as well as on the friends and family we have nearby and abroad.

I think this has been one of the more civil discussions of the topic that we have had in this forum to date. Why is it a mess? One of the biggest problems I see in society today is the total inability to have civil discourse over a topic.

I put the problem of not having civil discourse over a topic right next to not putting the toilet lid down.

There are numerous groups actively tearing the country down, the news media and most information is false, or believed to be (which is the same thing), a viral pandemic may/or may not be spreading around the world-which includes us, the feds are printing money like there's no tomorrow, entire industries are on the brink of failure, our education system is an unfunny joke, and on and on.

Not having a civil discussion does not rank anywhere on my list of problems.

Believe it or not, the time for civil discourse has passed.

the virus won't permeate your skin

When you cough or sneeze you don't spew out individual virus particles. It's a combination of saliva droplets and aerosoled saliva that contain the virus. Masks do interfere with the dispersal of saliva.

more importantly, particles the size of this virus are not a good metric

the virus survives much better in an aerosol or a droplet

even surgical masks help with aerosols, tho N(5 masks are much better
- and all are effective against droplets

if you are stuck with cloth, use multiple layers; better to snip some HEPA vac bags up and put them between layers

This. It isn't like one day you get and then you die happily in your sleep that night. It sounds more like weeks of misery and expense and then you die after they've thrown everything at you they can. And, depending on where you are, you may be one of the fortunate ones if you get an ICU bed. https://abc13.com/covid-19-coronavirus-ewn-hospitals/6260615/ Let's face it. You're taking the meds and treatments they've prescribed out of fear- of dying if you don't.
Big difference between fact based common sense and fear.

It's good to be careful but the fear mongering will kill and kill disproportionately.

Shouldn't be any surprise here.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/22/latest-on-covid19-in-mn
National data show a significant drop-off in emergency room visits for heart attacks, strokes and low blood sugar cases during the pandemic compared to the weeks before outbreaks surfaced, said Kris Ehresmann, Minnesota’s infectious disease director. It’s a surprising decline that suggests people are avoiding care, Ehresmann added.

Ehresmann and Minnesota Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm also reiterated ongoing worries that parents are not keeping up with regular vaccinations for their children because of COVID-19 fears.

Earlier Monday, Minnesota U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar’s office said that declines are being reported in routine vaccinations for children in Minnesota, including a 70 percent drop in measles vaccines administered compared to this time last year.