Pakistan plane crash

[Noah930]

Did I miss the thread? No talk on PPOT about the Airbus that crashed in Pakistan last week? The jet bounced off the runway 3 times in its first approach, then tried to circle around for a second attempt at landing, yet didn't make it back to the airport and came down a mile short, killing 97 out of 99 people on board.

https://news.sky.com/story/pakistan-plane-crash-video-shows-jet-scraped-runway-during-landing-attempt-11994336

Did the plane came in too hot, pilot somehow didn't realize the landing gear hadn't deployed (due to excessive airspeed), and then actually tried to land the plane with the wheels up? Bouncing off the tarmac 3 times then damaged the engines so that they never had the opportunity to make a successful go-around for a 2nd attempt?

[KNS]

The latest I had heard is that they had lost both engines while on their final approach to the airport. The last radio transmission was a Mayday call.

[Ryan_Cunningham]

I bet if it was Boeing it'd be on every station...

[vash]

i missed this!! terrible news!! just terrible.

[Nordwest]

Pakistan's Minister for Civil Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan told reporters on Thursday the plane's engines touched the ground three times on the first attempt at landing.

"The pilot never announced his landing gear wasn't opening. He haphazardly touched the engines thrice with the ground," Khan said.

"All marks are present [on the runway]. He was not at the proper height ... Control tower informed him you aren't at the required height, lower your altitude," he said, adding that the pilot replied, "I will manage."

According to communications posted on liveatc.net, an aviation radio monitoring website, the pilot told the controllers "we are comfortable now" during the approach, but the reason for the remark has left most experts puzzled.

Shortly after the engines scraped along the runway in the aborted first landing attempt, the pilot reported problems in maintaining altitude, then said both engines had failed.

Investigators are expected to examine whether the engines shut down because of their collision with the runway, following what appeared to be a steeper and faster approach than normal.

[Noah930]

^^^ Those are some of the same remarks I have read. Sounds like the pilot came in too high and fast, then didn't realize the landing gear couldn't/didn't deploy due to the airspeed, and then actually tried to land the plane with the gear still up? How do you make that series of mistakes? Is that even possible?

RIP to the 97. And to anyone else on in the neighborhood where the plane crashed.

[GH85Carrera]

Sounds like some really horrid pilot error. That pilot should never have been a pilot to be that bad.

Everyone wants a Sully Sullenberg to fly their airplane. No one deserves that pilot.

[vash]

i read that two people survived?!

[greglepore]

Yeah, he was above glideslope, flew an unstable approach, for some reason forgot the gear, or retracted it. Both engines struck runway and dragged a significant distance, managed to get a/c off the ground but both engines failed during the next approach.

[flipper35]

Some of the overseas training centers are just academy's that have them go through the motions. They don't really fly as much as learn to manage the systems with reasonable skill levels. No decision making or critical thinking skill are taught or required.

One of the big sites had an article back on the 737 MAX issues when it first came up. Flyingmag or Airfacts Journal or one of those.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Yeah, he was above glideslope, flew an unstable approach, for some reason forgot the gear, or retracted it. Both engines struck runway and dragged a significant distance, managed to get a/c off the ground but both engines failed during the next approach.

This is my understanding, scraped the engines on the runway hard enough to leave two long black marks.

[KFC911]

Saw this on the news when it happened a few days back...didn't know it was his second attempt, etc.

[ted]

After attempting an unintended gear up landing the Pilot said go to full throttle and co pilot misunderstood it as go get falafels and flew it straight to the market. Too soon?

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by Nordwest

According to communications posted on liveatc.net, an aviation radio monitoring website, the pilot told the controllers "we are comfortable now" during the approach, but the reason for the remark has left most experts puzzled.

In the background of that recording you can hear the "ding, ding, ding" warning alert that is supposed to tell the pilot to check his warning lights. He should have noticed that the landing gear were not deployed do to excessive air speed. He was too focused on landing and his tunnel vision probably just tuned everything out. It is the job of the first officer, or whichever pilot is not flying at the time, to monitor things and say something. So both of the crew blew it.

[Noah930]

That's what I (a non-pilot) was wondering. In a modern jetliner aren't there about a million bells and sirens going off if you 1) try to deploy the landing gear while going too fast, 2) are in landing mode with flaps deployed and low altitude and all that and the gear aren't down? How do you miss those warnings? Or are you so used to having them go off that you manage to tune them out like a nagging wife/screaming kids?

[javadog]

Too steep and fast on approach, pilot was told twice to abort, said "he was comfortable making it", speed was north of 250 at 1000 feet, north of 200 when he hit the runway, gear wasn't down. Alarm bell was going off loud and clear. Initial touchdown was at 4500 feet down the runway. Made 3000 feet altitude on the go around, probably wasn't watching his engine gauges either.

Two did survive. No idea how but good for them.

[450knotOffice]

This accident was an epic failure of aircraft management in every regard.

In very basic terms, they were incredibly high while very close to the airport. They were also still very fast. Instead of recognizing the situation and simply abandoning the approach so that they could get down to a proper (much lower) altitude, and proper (much slower) airspeed and then reattempt it, the crew instead dove for the runway from high altitude (think Space Shuttle approach). They were not even CLOSE to normal approach speeds (which would be somewhere in the vicinity of 125-140 knots, and crossed the runway threshold at about 210 knots. In fact, at 2000 feet above the runway, their speed was about 260 knots.

There is a concept in the airline industry worldwide called a Stable Approach. It is mandatory at every airline I know of. Essentially, the aircraft must be at the proper final approach speed, completely configured (landing flaps and gear down), on the proper glideslope (about 3 degrees, which is only about 300 feet per mile), engines spooled up to normal approach levels, and all checklists completed, all by 1000 feet above the runway elevation.

They apparently accomplished none of this.

After both engines hit the ground, they went around, but it seems the damage to the engines was enough to cause them both to shut down while on the downwind leg of the subsequent visual approach pattern. They almost made it back to the runway.

Here's an interesting analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEYiiZdvNh4&feature=emb_title

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Cunningham

I bet if it was Boeing it'd be on every station...

Oh please (not you personally, the above idea). By and large this board has been gushing about Boeing's superiority for a decade, none of that automation, let real men fly, rha rha... if it ain't boeing you all ain't going... And recently we've seen how superior Boeing really is with shoddy assembly practices, reusing old designs and cutting corners, crap software, cover-ups... So now let's jump on airbus' hide again and feel better about how poor Boeing got abused in the media? Please... They're all +/- the same in the end, crashes are tragedies, and they're all pretty F$%$^ at the moment anyway due to Covid. I hope they use that time to QA their planes and practices, all of them ! This one sounds like serious pilot issues but we'll see... Boeing got what it deserved, honestly, and I liked them - they used to make awesome planes ! Hopefully they pick themselves up and start making great planes *properly* again...

[Jolly Amaranto]

Originally Posted by Noah930

How do you miss those warnings? Or are you so used to having them go off that you manage to tune them out like a nagging wife/screaming kids?

This video does a good job of explaining what happens in a stressful situation causing the crew to tune out warnings.

[Cajundaddy]

The crew flew that bird right into the ground. A completely absurd approach with no chance of landing safely.