Noob Questions About Boats
 

Tell me about boating - and assume I know nothing.

I have always loved boats, gone to boat shows, wooden boat centers, etc - generally favoring powerboats, sorry sailors - but never realistically thought I could/should own one. Seems like an endless money pit worse than any house, and also like something you needed to grow up with to be capable.

Then I started talking to friends who have boats.

One has a 35-ish foot powerboat - a SeaRay, maybe - that he keeps at a local marina on the Columbia River. He said the boat cost him $30K to buy, $5K/year for slip, insurance, maintenance, etc, and fuel varies but actually he mostly uses it as a waterside condo, maybe takes it out several times a year, just to putter on the river. He told me he wouldn't take it in the ocean, feels neither boat nor he are capable.

Another friend lived in Berkeley but worked in Modesto two days/week for a decade, and ended up buying a boat just to live on. Similar deal, rarely took it out, it was basically a floating bedroom, cheaper than renting an apartment or hotel rooms, when he was done with the job he simply sold the boat and broke even-ish.

My neighbor has one of the smaller Grand Banks trawlers, keeps it in a boathouse on the Columbia River, takes 1-3 weeks trips during the summer. He occasionally goes into the Pacific and up to Puget Sound, but other times only goes as far as Astoria.

So, here are my questions.

1. Realistically what does it cost to buy, moor, maintain and operate a 35-45' used power boat that is of a quality that you might hope to not lose a ton of money over ten years? Or is there no such thing?

2. Also realistically, how do you become competent and safe at operating said boat? Assume you're starting from zero.

I've done a fair bit of sea kayaking up and down the West Coast and Baja, but that's the only sort of "boat" I've even operated.

Not lose money on???
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rfovRlzg-G0/hqdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uB4KuKkgFts/hqdefault.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/06MN5Wz5_DM/hqdefault.jpg

Sea kayaking? Then you're ready. Get a boat and hit the open ocean. THere's not teacher like experience!

Sorry I can't be of any actual help, but those were the responses that came to mind.

I've never owned a boat and only know a little about them. I had a buddy that had a couple (well, him and his parents, including a tiny sailboat) when I was in college. They seemed to require constant work. I remember him swimming down the canal to his parents with the bowline tied around his waist one night.

My parents had a pontoon boat for leisurely river boating, and I think that was a smaller less expensive pain in the money-pit than a larger boat (which my dad had originally wanted, thank goodness they didn't go that route!)

Don't forget, the two best days of boat ownership....

Workmates looking at me for laughing out loud!!

BOAT= Bring Out Another Thousand.

I have an old 27 foot sailboat for about 25 years now, all boats need constant attention, are you willing to do a lot of the work? As they get larger operating cost goes up a lot, usually more things to go wrong, plumbing, refrigeration, engine repairs. Part would depend on your moorage cost for the area, they normally need to get pulled out every two years to repaint below the water line, under $1k ( one boat unit is $1k) for my 27ft if I do the work myself. Any deck or hull repairs get pricy real quick, usually balsa core so they can get wet, so survey required before purchasing.

So break even, not likely on a 35-45, unless you picked up really cheap and demand went way up, price an engine or even a prop, electronics, safety equipment. A friend with a pretty new 44ft sailboat is in for about $20k so far this year, electronics failed and required new auto helm and some engine repairs.

My wife, and I started out in a 16' SeaRay with a 70 HP Evinrude outboard motor that we would tow to the inland lakes, and have fun for a day. This will give you an idea of how boats handle, what to watch for, the rules on the water, and whether you have the stomach, and will to keep it.

Starting out in a 35'+ boat would be daunting enough if you could learn on a freind's boat, but maneuvering a big boat in tight spaces, around other expensive boats, with people watching gets stressful, especially when it's your boat, and reputation.

We now have a 22' cabin cruiser with a single V8 that is still nerve racking around other boats.

Sorry, no good infor on costs, but make sure you want to do it before diving in (pun meant).

I am pleased to brighten your day :-)

As the saying goes: If it floats, flies or F's...lease it. :D

There are free online safety courses for getting a boater safety card.
If you don't have a buddy you can crew for, it's probably easiest to take a boating class... usually a 1-2 day affair. There are quite a few for sailing, i imagine fewer are needed for power boating.

I admittedly laughed out loud.

Boats are not cheap. My dad has a 24ft center console down in the FL keys. Had to get a new outboard because of hurricane damage. The motor cost 2x what he paid for the boat.

So, that said, my father's boat has brought our family incredible joy and memories that we will never forget. Fishing with all of the grand kids under (well....not directly under...:) the Bahia Honda railroad bridge while flying fish breach with schools of Mackerel chasing them...yeah, the kids won't forget that. If you think your family will get real use out of it, go for it. Just put the correct amount of money aside so it does not become a burden.

You are really jumping into the deep end of the pool buying a 35-40 foot boat as your first one . By any chance is there anywhere near you where you can rent for the day ? Going out on the water with someone that is experienced is invaluable .

You are putting lives at risk with not knowing what you are doing . Go to a local marina and watch for a few hours people loading and unloading boats off a trailer ........... so many have no clue what they are doing .

Not trying to scare you but this is serious stuff and not to be taken lightly. Ever see a boat explode/burn just because they forgot to run the bilge blower ? It's not pretty .

Having said all that a day on the water can be the most peaceful time you will have just need to make sure the odds are in your favor . Good luck 👍

There’s no such thing as a cheap boat. Spend the money upfront and buy quality. Take care of it. You’ll still lose your ass but at least you won’t spend every weekend repairing things.

Ok I’ve posted this on another thread but here we go. I’ve been on a boat since I was two and have owned at least one boat since I was 15. I have owned over 20 boats in my life time so far. Not bragging just stating I know more about boats than Porsche’s. I’ve mostly owned centerconsoles for tournament fishing but have also had 2 sailboats a houseboat, flats boat and some cuddies. First what will you be using the boat for? There really is no one size fits all boat. Second jumping into a 35’ starter boat will be overwhelming, especially if it’s docked and not on a trailer. The maintenance will triple. For me my 34’ was about the limit of what I could run by myself, so hopefully you have a spouse,kids or friends to help out.Thirdly unlike some of our cars there is usually no way you will make any money on a boat. It is very hard to give you any good advice without knowing your purpose of the boat,budget,location. For more help check out some boating forums like thehulltruth.com . Good luck.

That is a big boat, JYL, make sure you spend some time in the real world on a boat that size. Talk to folks who own that size of boat who are not selling.

The real numbers to operate, maintain and simple upkeep on a boat that size will amaze you. The real numbers.

Seat time is the only way to get good at handling a boat, any boat. It took my Dad about a month to get good at bringing his 29’ cabin cruiser to the dock in benign conditions...single screw, lots of sail area.

Think long and hard before you leap.

After owning boats continuously since 1975 I just sold my last one and am currently boatless. I will surely own another one at some point but in transition now and not sure how this will play out. All of my boating experience has been between 14'-40' both power and sail. To your questions:

1. Realistically what does it cost to buy, moor, maintain and operate a 35-45' used power boat that is of a quality that you might hope to not lose a ton of money over ten years? Or is there no such thing?

Boats are expensive to buy, expensive to maintain, and expensive to keep in the water. If you buy quality and maintain it to a high standard it will hold it's value better than most. Expect to spend at least $10k per year on a 40' trawler beyond fuel and mooring fees. A quality Hatteras 40 might be $100k-200k depending on year and condition.

2. Also realistically, how do you become competent and safe at operating said boat? Assume you're starting from zero.

Take classes in cruising and boat handling, make friends in the area and offer to crew with them often. If you can cook and clean you are golden. I currently crew on a Schock 35 sailboat and my weather, nav, and helm skills from 20 years of racing have value.

Personally, if you want to get into power boating buy a trailerable 20' outboard and take day or weekend adventures in rivers, lakes, and even sheltered ocean waters. Learn the ropes. Charter a crewed 40' motor yacht in the San Juans and enjoy a week on the water with someone else responsible for docking, anchoring, fuel, weather, tides, nav etc. This is a much better way to get up to speed and see if you like it than jumping into the deep end with a weight belt on.

Endless money pit.

And now my wife tells me she hates the boat.

If someone told me they were giving me a boat for free.....

And it turned out to be a Sea-Ray.... I'd run, not walk away....

For years (around here at least) they were/are considered "Boat Show" boats, sold to people with no clue, who decided to buy them at a Boat Show, knowing nothing about boats... And they look great new, but build quality is bad..

Granted I'm jaded I grew up sport fishing on some premier boats.... Rybovich, Chrisovich (ha), Hatteras....

So I have a lot of bias.. I'd never willingly pay for one..

Do you get sea sick? If you plan on any open ocean adventures, better find out before you buy the boat. ;)

I am mainly commenting to get subscribed here. I am interested in this for retirement. I only owned a small johnboat for fishing before. I can't imagine owning something 30+ feet unless I was either wealthy (pay to have it ready to go at any time) or retired.

G

Funny timing. Just repaired a friend's smaller boat, 20' or so. Mercruiser inboard. They have it on a trailer in their driveway and couldn't get it to start. They called a boat mechanic to come fix it, he quoted 400 for a starter and starter relay. He then offered to sell them his boat of the same vintage, but better condition. They declined.

They asked me to look at it, so I did. Not a mechanic, really not a boat mechanic. The boat in the driveway on a trailer is the only way you will get me on a boat.

Confirmed the no crank, battery is new. Smacked the starter with a rubber mallet, the motor now cranks.
Pull the distributor cap, and the points are fouled and they are the wrong points for the engine. Cross reference the mercruiser points part number to the automotive part number, price difference is about 5x more for the mercruiser part number. We are talking about a chevy four cylinder, after all.
Swapped and adjusted the points, and it now runs fine.

Moral? Dunno, just thought it was interesting a boat thread came up after my first boat repair experience.

And don't forget to put in your boat hull plug in before you put the boat into the water.

I (we) started out with a 14ft Ouchita flat bottom boat with a 18hp Mercury. I was 14 and had money, but once we were done fixing/ tricking it out, the entry $ number doubled, and we got the motor for free!:D

I have a ZERO dollar (free) 1976 16ft Skeeter/70hp Merc in the backyard that runs and floats (or so I'm told), and I know once I get it wet, there will be a sucking sound coming from my pockets!

Start with a small boat to minimize damage. If you have never driven a boat, take an instruction class. Read up on maritime laws/rules, the coast guard and your state Parks and Wildlife should have all the reading material to get you going.

Be safe.

I thought that was Bayliner. My brother had a 21ft SeaRay, no issues. He could tell you hold on, and turn that boat on a dime. Then again, his boating skills and mechanical aptitude are pretty damn high.

He might as well drag it on the highway with a chain...considering he's buying a brand new boat every single 6 years.

Absolutely, I had a buddy that worked at a place that rented boats at the beach in Sarasota, FL. That guy could do what to me seemed amazing with a small boat. I was on the boat when he came in and practically slid the boat into a "parallel parking spot" practically at speed. It was like one of those things you see in a video on youtube where someone pulls a handbrake 180 in a mini into a spot with a couple/few inches in front and behind the car.

I'm sure it's like towing a trailer, you get better with practice.

My college buddy told me a few details about "rules of the road" type stuff. THe one thing that I remember (I think) is "red, right, return". That kind of stuff is vital to your safety.

http://boatsbeachesandbars.com/blog/understanding-boating-rules-red-right-return/

Good timing - I got the boat itch when we were down in the St Pete area on vacation last month (June.) I've been browsing thehulltruth forum and Craigslist as well as boattrader web site just to get an idea of pricing, models, etc. I really want a fishing boat that would also serve as a cruiser/ski boat. Our property is large enough (3.5 acres) we can store it hear and we live within two hours of at least 3 fairly large lakes.

Yep Sea Ray were generally solid boats, not in the same class as Boston Whaler or Grady White but solid. Bayliner were low cost, entry level...

No seasickness here.

I like working on stuff, and am the kind of guy who would practice going in and out of a slip over and over.

But I’m also kind of cheap. (Stay tuned for my next thread about should I buy a new car.)

No! I like your boat!

I had a 32' Chaparral twin gas v8s with outdrives kept in the local marina. I would never do that again. I would go direct or v-drive.

Boat payment was 600/month
Slip was 475/month
Fuel burn at 30kts 15gph per engine with gas at 4.50 per gallon
Monthly bottom cleaning at 120 per
Annual major maintenance and haul-out 1-2K
Bottom paint every 2-3 years 2-3k
Replacement canvas 2500


You've been warned...LOL

However, there were some very amazing times going to the local islands, snorkeling, kayaking, bbq-ing, etc.

Some good advice above. Especially about starting out small, trailerable will simplify and save money in year around ownership.

Check with you local coast guard aux. they usually offer good intro courses. Cover safety, boat handeling, basic piloting, intro to navigation, rules of the road, AIDS to navigation , weather etc.
Completing a course with them will help you feel much better prepared to go boating safely.
This will also be a chance to meet other new boaters and possibly lest to some of the best boating of all, on other peoples boats.

Boating opens a great world of fun, sport, getting closer to nature.

35' to 40' is taking on a lot for a new boater.
Have fun!

Cheers Richard

Some good answers above.

My first question would be what is your intention for the boat? Your two examples indicate floating double wide's. Do you intend to boat or use it as a camper? If it is going to be a camper it doesn't matter how big it is. Very common near me for people to buy old house boats remove the engines and use the space for storage.

1. Realistically what does it cost to buy, moor, maintain and operate a 35-45' used power boat that is of a quality that you might hope to not lose a ton of money over ten years? Or is there no such thing?


There are a lot of variables only research will answer. The cost to buy? That depends on what you are buying, age, material, wood, glass, metal, condition, size, etc, etc. Dockage will also depend on the size of the boat and the slip. Slip rents, hauling splashing, hard storage are generally by the foot and will vary from region to region and marina to marina depending on amenities, location etc. Slip rents will round up. So if you have a 30' boat but the marina only has a 40' slip you will pay for a 40' slip. Then you have electricity for pumps, battery charger, HVAC. Maintenance also depends on the material of the baot and the gage. A new fiberglass boat will have less maintenance then a five year old fiberglass boat that is run thirty miles off shore every weekend. Steel and aluminum boats are susceptible to electrolysis so their hulls have a different maintenance routine and cost. Wood is another. A 35' boat or smaller could be rack stored so maintenance would be less. It would be stored indoors out of the elements. You call when you want to use it the drop it in you boat, bring it back hand them the keys, they wash it and put it away until next weekend. Operating costs vary depending on size, number of engines, type of boat go fast or trawler. It's a hard question to answer until you do it.

Very, very few boats that will maintain value. Rybovich, some Merritt's, a Potter Seacraft, some Grady's, Hinkley, maybe a Hatteras 53' are the few I can think of. All of the mass produced boats like a Sea Ray, Four Winns, Formula will lose value. The better it is maintained the easier it will be to sell but not necessarily the more you will get.

2. Also realistically, how do you become competent and safe at operating said boat? Assume you're starting from zero. Like most things the only way to become competent is to do it. The more you do it the better you will become. I will differ from some of the replies above to start small. In my experience and opinion bigger boats are easier to operate than little boats. Of course when things go wrong they wrong bigger and it usually costs more.

Had boats all my life until recently. 10k yr to maintain / operate a boat of that size. Slip fees vary widely by location and amenities. Boat mechanics make car mechanics look like honest cheapskates.
The only new wisdom I can offer is that boats like to be used. Ones that sit are usually inop when you do decide to go out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

is this for river use, or do you plan to go out into the Pacific?

And don't forget about the joy of filling 100-200 gallons or more of fuel to feed the beast . Very easy to consume in just two days on the water .

I’d like to eventually (experience dependent) be going into the ocean.

Which is partly why I’m asking about larger boats. Columbia bar has a reputation and not a lot of bailouts on the coast there.

This is a great thread. I am also considering getting into motorboating. A lot of good advice. It seems that the consensus is start with something small, advice is 35 feet and larger simply too big for a first boat. Does this advice still apply to the larger boats that have a docking joystick? It seems that the Docking joystick artificially enhances the ability of the boater. Love this thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This part of the Pacific is not pacific. The Oregon coast is known for having so much wave action that the intertidal ecology differs from other areas (so dominated by disturbance (wave action), that no species can "take over" - jane Lubchenco did that work then ran NOAA).

You might want to keep track of the death rate for awhile before crossing the bar...

OTOH, people do it ...

Boating is a passion like any other, do not go into it thinking of the investment and return side - the equation will not work out.

Find and join a yacht club, they'll all have associate memberships, most have training programs, all have bulletin boards and stuff for sale constantly so you can get an idea of what you like and may go look for.
Look at a lot of boats. If you get to the decision to buy, hire a reputable (accredited) broker, and
Get introduced to a surveyor.
Check out boating forums - The Hull Truth. Sams Marine (Hatteras owners), etc.

Boats are all different, figure out what you like. Buy the best one you can find, avoid anything that is a fixer upper. The newest best boat will REQUIRE attention and exact twice what you think it will to get caught up again.

We own a 44 year old 58' Hatteras. It is in amazing shape, I do 95% of my own work and am usually disappointed when I have to hire a 'specialist'. Like air cooled 911's, it helps if you can turn wrenches and draw the line when you have too.

I won't argue with much of what others have said here, its a personal decision. We live on ours in the summer, use it all year otherwise. When my wife retires next December we'll expand our ranging, Alaska is on our mind.

Few things gratify me more that operating our boat well, it is the largest machine I've ever had to manage, and I hope to have it until I... well you know.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594510962.jpg

We had a 58YF when I was growing up. That's what I learned on.

I just bought a boat a couple of weeks ago, it’s my first powerboat. I did have a small sailboat around 10-15 years ago.

As to cost, it’s expensive, and I’ve only had the boat for. A few weeks, I’m scheduled to have some routine maintenance done and I’m looking at around $1000:per engine.

And I’ve bought. A house on a canal which leads to the gulf. So a big premium for waterfront, and I’m having a new dock and lift put in.

I sure hope I like boating.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594516359.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1594516359.jpg

The saying goes with boats: the happiest day is when you buy it. The happiest day is the day you sell it.