Expensive Week
 

Broke Down, bought new air conditioners. Some installers are insane. House has 2 complete systems, one up (3.5 Ton) and one down (4 Ton).

The Furnaces and Evaporator coils looked like some children installed them. Complete hack jobs. This was the house contractor!

The units in the house were a "mix master". Originally (mostly) York Components when new, with a fly-by-night coil. Supposedly 12 SEER. The condensers failed after about 7 years and I replaced with 13 SEER units. One of the EVAP coils failed at about 4 years and I think they covered about 25% of the repair (coil itself).

Downstairs system developed condensate issues. The drain pain rusted away. And as I was having repair/replace bids on Tuesday/Wednesday, the upstairs condenser failed.

(Side note: While diagnosing the upstairs unit tripping breaker, I noted a flash in the wrong part of the electrical panel. My 150A main was sparking/arcing! :eek: )

Out goes the crappy single stage mix-master, in goes well matched, well installed "middle road" 2-stage units.

I had quotes for single stage from just under $10K for 2 units (4 ton and 3.5 ton) to $23K. 2 stage from $12K to 26K and true Variable speed from $19K to $28K. Most of the high bidders were the usual suspects, Trane and Carrier. I would not entertain any bids from the low end groups (Goodman, etc.) and only RHEEM for the middle of the road.

I went with the Better RHEEM units, (RA17 Communicating, 2 stage). I'll end up with a $500 Tax Credit (woo-hoo?). I expect about a 40% reduction in Air Conditioning energy consumption.

Sounds like my house, everything here is still running well( 2x Rheem like yours) but my HVAC contractor suggested that I think about replacement and adding a UV filter

I know nothing about AC

Whats the diff between 1 stage and 2?

Tell us more about the tax credit

Well, mixed feelings, right. Expensive, but a better setup, and you'll be saving money monthly.

I have a buddy that had everything but the heat replaced in his home in Magnolia this week to the tune of $13k.

The AC in our apt went out earlier this year. When I realized, I called the office. They brought up a temporary indoor unit that kept the apt perfectly comfy, and then the maintenance guys replaced the coils about 2-3 hours later. Total cost $0. Apt living has it's perks.

Back when we had a home, I learned a lot about HVAC. Yes, most AC contractors seem to be hacks. I'm sure there are some good ones, but they aren't the ones that we ever found.

I had a pretty good A/C guy out on Lake Conroe, but I think he is dead.

Single Stage is on/off, standard system.

Two Stage, it starts up at about 65% and then switches to Full if the temp is more than two degrees off. More advanced system can also dehumidify by running low speed for a long time.

Variable Speed is like Two stage, except 40% to 110% capacity and very small increments. Even better humidity control.

Humid areas really benefit from the Two Stage and Variable Speed systems.

Tax Credit is $300 per unit, maximum $500 if the SEER/Components are right. Meh. $500 on $12K.

I had a complete new system installed about 10 years ago, 16 seer variable speed. IT was 10K......I remember when I first opened the panel about 2 years after installation, I was shocked. The wiring looked like it had been installed by a complete amateur. Just a huge rats nest of wires with nothing labeled.....and this was a Trane high end system....

My electric bill in the "Winter" is about $100 per month. And in the middle of summer is a bit over $300. I expect to reduce my summer bill by about $80 per month. And overall about $500 per year. Really wanted the Variable speed unit, but I couldn't justify 50% more cost.

Interesting. Trane and Carrier only allow NATE certified dealers/installers.

Both systems installed were $12K total. They are actually installing the second system as I type...

Sounds expensive for sure, James.

But as you and we all know....your HVAC system is something worth investing in, especially for those of us in the sunbelt!

I'm one of those who have the Goodman unit for the outside condenser unit. Will be 6 years old in September. The air handler is much older. Probably 15 years now. When the Goodman goes, it will probably be time to re-do the whole system and upgrade to the new refrigerant.

I've been trying to extend the life of the Goodman as much as possible. Hosing down the coil, keeping cold galv spray on the filter to stave off rust, and I also have a small 6K BTU window unit I have been running lately to cut down on how much the Goodman has to run.

I also re-roofed with aluminum in silver color earlier this year so that helps with the sun's rays. This winter I plan to re-insulate the attic and then at some point start with window replacement.

Like Bill, am also interested in learning more about project. Thanks!

We had a guy, but he retired.

I remember about 6 years ago I was at a customer's home who just had a Carrier system installed and it was whisper quiet. Very impressive.

That's an impressive reduction. Hopefully, you see it.

I added insulation to our home a couple/few years before we sold it. I think it was about $500 worth of insulation, and we made that back in a year. This was in a home made in '67 that was probably as air tight as a colander. It was two story with a single unit, so I upgraded the thermostat to a smart therm that I was able to schedule the fan to run periodically which helped keep the temp differential between upstairs and down to a reasonable difference, especially during certain times of the year.

In the "low speed" mode, the RHEEM is extremely quiet. In Regular mode, it is far lower in sound than the old units. The new Condensers are HUGE!

The one in back is the new 3 ton unit. The short one in the foreground is the old 4 ton unit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595001959.jpg

I am doing a lot of energy efficiency improvements.

VS Pool Pump ~$800/year!!!

LED Lighting ~$150/year

New A/C units ~$500/year

That pool pump paid for itself in one year! After the pool, our electric bills were about $3200-$3300/year. The VS pool pump and LED lights have us down under $2400. I'd like to get under $2K/year.

Expensive but worth it. I maintain that AC guys are starting to understand how valuable their services are and charge accordingly. When the air goes off and it’s 90 in the house, I will pay handsomely to have that situation fixed!

I keep the usual components (Capacitors and Contactors) around the house for quick/minor repairs. Stupid things always fails on a weekend with people coming over...

But don't you have solar panels? If so, and your summer bills are still $300 - wow.

I had similar, huge Trane 16 seer variables installed. Very quiet, but to no avail - both neighbors units sound like lawn mowers.

Interested to hear how the two stage works out.

Nope. My roof is 16 years old and I need to replace it first.

This new house going up behind me......looks like their condensers will be right behind me - closer than anything else on their property - less than 20' from my LR... :(

The Goodman I installed in 2014.......note the blue colored filter/dryer - that's what I sprayed with cold galv spray to protect from corrosion. Last thing I need is a leak there and all my refrigerant leaking out! :eek:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595006722.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595006722.JPG

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595006722.JPG

Baz,
Get rid of that crappy insulation on the suction line. Use close cell Armaflex if you can get it. Refrigeration houses sell it. The open cell stuff used to insulate water lines in your house is not recommended for a/c lines. Don ‘t insulate the liquid line or drier. Keep the area around the condenser clean and clear of plants, weeds etc. Good luck!

Good call. The older single-speed pumps are stupid-expensive to run, especially here in AZ where grid-demand is massive in the summer.
As such, it's actually a law here that any new-builds or replacements have to use multi-speed pumps.

From Today, the unit in the foreground is the 3 ton new unit and the one in the back is the 4 ton new unit. Huge!!! Easily twice the cooling area. I know part of the reason is the R-22 vs. R-410A

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1595008411.jpg

Yep. I was wondering why our summer bills were $400, for a few years.

I need to remove my pressure side pump. There is a guy who diverts water from his VS pump to the pressure side cleaner. He counted the revolutions on the wheels and adjusted his pump speed to get it correct. I believe you also remove the orifice. My other option is to replace with a pool robot cleaner. The electric savings would pay for it in about 10 years...

2 hours of my pool cleaner pump = 24 hours of my VS pump, in energy usage.

Hey Bob....

Thanks heaps for the advice!

Good observation about the insulation - way overdue for replacement!

I will add to my punch list for sure.

I do try to keep up with maintenance on the condenser - mostly rinsing off with fresh water every few weeks. This coastal location I'm in can be hard on metal components!

Thanks again - cheers! SmileWavy

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James - congrats on your new system and thanks for all the photos and technical info!

I've always felt air conditioning (when working properly) is the eighth wonder of the world!

I'm pretty sure that it's several notches higher than #8!

Another thing people forget about when rushing to move to TX ... :)

Except for a couple weeks, usually late summer, I could do without A/C here. Similar for heat in winter.

In TX, FL, LA etc. you need a/c just to dehumidify!

G

Yep it is HORRIBLE here. And we have really big bugs too!

That Rheem looks a lot like the Coleman we had installed last week.
Anyone know who makes the Coleman units?

We also specified a semi HEPA once-a-year filter and an ultraviolet light in the duct work. - wasted money or money well spent.?

Thanks
Bill K

Yeah, our HVAC would hardly get used if it wasn't for the humidity.

Agree but didn't want to upset the current rankings!

SmileWavy

Good money spent.

The UV light inhibits growth on the evaporator coils.

And I prefer the big 4" thick whole house HEPA filters (MERV 12), over the little 1" ones on the returns.

Good choices

Two stage also has two compressors. Efficiency in mind of course.

Around 1999 had all but heat replaced in my Victorian crib in Cypress, TX. 14 seer. Three ton up, five ton down. Trane. Surely single stage at $7,500.

Contractor said draw the temp down through the night to dry the house out given the newer units cool so fast.

Bob, that sounds about right. 20 years ago, 2-stage would have been very expensive.

Honestly, the 16 SEER option was just under $10K. But for $2K more, 2 stage seemed like a good investment.

Working fine. These are WiFi, so you program the schedule on your phone. 7 days with 4 schedules per day.

I'm not following the language, so please help me out. When you say 2 stage, do you mean that it has 2 compressors? Or the evaporator fan is 2 speed?

My parents had a Trane XL19I (19 SEER) installed about 12 years ago, I was living there finishing my degree at the time. Dual compressor, very quiet. They had a concern about the noise, well, because the old one was noisy. So, my brother moved the whip to where they wanted it, pad laid down, then the a/c guys ran new lines, installed the condenser, dampers, two thermostats, maybe the handler too. $10K. Two story house, 2600sqft, Dallas.

They went solar later, because that's what my brother told them to do. He set them up with the best system out there then, because he could. My brother then worked for a company that is now Tesla, was Solar City. I don't know the particulars, but it has all paid off, and they have little to no electricity bill. From what dad has told me, he basically pays for the electricity consumed at night.

Last spring I installed a 14 seer 2.5ton Rheem. The house never had central air, 1200sqft. $5K. I haven't gotten around to insulating the house, and it doesn't have any, anywhere. It can't keep up. These past few days (105f) you have to turn the place into a meat locker at night and hope that it maintains throughout the day.

Wife just walked in the door, and it's too cold, maybe 74f is better for her. Not for me.

AC may need work, but how's the back-up power there?

I just had a poor boy Goodman installed in my 2200 sq ft house in California. 4tonsnand all new duct work + asbestos removal. $9,000

Added a 6,000 cfm whole house fan from Quiet Cool. I highly recommend it.

Took the blower assembly from the old HVAC system, all 60#s of it. Added a gable vent in the garage for the HVAC fan. It was fun getting it up there. There's a few spots in the gable that the big fan is blowing back into the garage and not out so I will be blocking that off soon. I set it up to plug into a wall outlet when needed. When I get my cnc set p in the garage I will have an electrician bring in 220 and also a wall switch for the fan

We went solar 18 months ago. I have 36 more payments of $320 our Electric bill is $6 or less a month. ROI is around 7 years and the true cost is about $70 a month that we averaged for the year extra over not having solar.