My in-ground sprinkler saga

[CMDR Perry]

I live in a 32 year old house in Minnesota on a street corner. The first owner installed a Rain Bird sprinkler system with 6 zones. This system is fairly high maintenance due to the number of heads on the corner that get filled with sand by plow trucks. Anyway we bought the house because it was far from the city (crime) and has a decent 3 car garage.

In the first 10 years we planted about a dozen pines. The county we live in has sandy soil so pine trees grow like weeds. Anyway in the back of the house in zone 2 there is now a large white pine with an 18" trunk. There is a sprinkler head a few feet from this tree. Beginning last year I started to notice water flow for the rotating heads in zone 2 was decreasing every weeK? This year I replaced one head and pulled the other 2 and cleaned the strainers but still no luck. Then I noticed while testing the new head a loud hissing noise in the ground near the white pine.

Today after having the utilities marked I dug up the area where I heard the noise expecting to find a broken supply tube. Just getting to the tube was hampered by a ginormous 4 vein tree root. I had to use my trusty Sawzall to cut out the giant root section. Under this root was the 3/4 inch sprinkler tube and below that another large diameter root. The zone 2 supply tube was not cut or torn but had been squished almost flat between the 2 roots. I cut out the damaged section, spliced in a new piece and tested the zone 2 sprinklers. Now all heads pop-up fully and work as designed. Just wanted to share this water based saga with PPOT. DP

[GH85Carrera]

I personally installed the sprinkler system at my house 21 years ago. I used all the professional grade Rainbird stuff. 99 spray heads on 11 zones fed from my water well I had put in just for the sprinklers.

Our soil is the opposite of yours. Our is pure clay. When dry, it is a brick. I have to use a pick axe to break up the dry soil to get a shovel in it. But that is better than working in the wet clay. When wet, it takes one shovel to get some clay out, a scraper to scrape the clay off of the shovel, a scraper for the first scraper, and usually one more scraper to clean the second one.

Just clean out the plant material, and it is ready to make pottery.

Over the 21 years my (Master Gardner) wife has pointed at the ground and insisted we put in a new garden in 6 areas. One is a kio pond and flowers, the rest are gardens with one fountain. The heads had had to be moved, and changed. It means less to mow for me.



This are three of the gardens in the front yard. The one on the right is the newest.

I have had to replace only a few pop up heads. Many nozzles, and lots of sand filters. I have retired from sprinkler installations.

[Baz]

Congrats on hunting down the problem and the repair.

As an irrigation contractor - now semi-retired - I have always considered irrigation repair work to be quite tedious.

The focus of my work as a contractor was always design and installation - much less tedious - although still challenging in it's own way.

We don't use that black flexible pipe down here in Florida but rather PVC, but I've seen plenty of situations where it was compromised by all kinds of things including tree roots.

What I do appreciate about an irrigation system is - it's not hard to test operations. Just turn it on and observe. As in your case, low (or no) water flow from head(s) - rut roh. Something is amiss!

I put the 3 zone system in at my house in the following year I bought it in '95 and have made a few re-configurations over the years but not too many. First investment I made on the property was a shallow well and it's been working great ever since. I use a Goulds (GT15) 1 1/2 HP centrifugal pump, sitting inside the garage with the well and valves just outside. Couple weeks ago I had to replace one of the solenoids. Took all of 5 minutes. These are all the original valves (Rainbird) I installed back in '96 too.

This industry has made some incredible advancements over the decades I have been in the business. One of my favourites has been the stream rotor nozzle. All the major manufacturers make them now but my fav. is the Rainbirds......

[RWebb]

ok, since I'm about to replace an el cheapo True-Vaue nozze on 1/2 pipe...


why is the Rbird better than the Hunter RP?


I don't need a pop-up; I'm just gonna leave it proud so I can hit it with the mower if I stop paying attention - then I'll dig up the pipe...

[RNajarian]

To add to our local expert Baz. . .

In CA PVC pipe is the only way to go, but be careful, buy the larger walled schedule 80 pipe. Both the flexible black pipe and the thin walled schedule 40 PVC pipe have been known to burst even while buried in the CA sun.

Learned that one the hard way.

[stomachmonkey]

Get a Rachio sprinkler controller.

[GH85Carrera]

In these parts of the country almost all the pros install and support the Rainbird Professional line. Not the Rainbird stuff from the big box stores. Go to a contractor supplier. Some industrial building with pickup trucks and large pipe racks on top in the parking lot. The biggest Rainbird pro sales company in town will not sell to non professionals. They don't want to take the time to explain how things work to Mr. Homeowner. They want the sales volume of a professional and the simple order and sell it. No time spent telling them how to do it.

I have one smaller company that will sell to me. He wants business more and will talk to me about the different problems. And yea, there is a difference in the product itself. The professional line will last longer. I have most of the heads in my system that are 21 years old. Still working like they are supposed to. I have a 1.5 HP 220 volt well pump at 200 feet in a 220 foot well. It puts out 18 GPM. It is only for watering the yard. We have city supplied water and sewer. The cost of adding a second water meter just for a sprinkler was more than putting in a well. And I have no water bill for the well, and I can water when the city has rationing.

I have bought less than a dozen heads in the 21 years. Some were mangled by the mower, some just were full of crud.

[CMDR Perry]

Thanks for the replies Glen and Baz. Baz do you know if any sprinkler manufacturer offers a valve controller that has a programmable overlap timing feature? I.E. the zone 2 supply valve opens for 5 seconds before the zone 1 valve closes. This is a standard automated CIP feature that minimizes line pressure spikes. DP

[Zeke]

I would have added a section of iron pipe through the maze of roots. Or at least Sched 80.

[GH85Carrera]

I bought a Rainbird professionl controller 21 years ago. It was set up for a water well. There is a separate box for a relay the controls the pump. The controller knows to open the control valve, then kick on the pump. It opens the new section then closes the old section so there is no pressure spike. So at least 21 years ago they were doing it. The controller I have has 4 different program modes, and 4 different programs per mode. So in the spring or fall when the weather is cooler and the evaporation and drying are less I can have one program. When it get summer HOT the next mode can be changed to take care of that.

It even has one mode that I set up for a drought period. It will water each section for 6 minutes, wait 30 minutes and do that again three times. That gives all the water time to soak in and no runnoff.

I have never need the fourth mode. It is a really complex timer to set up. I am sure they have them now that are Wi-fi and can be adjustedby your phone or computer.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

To add to our local expert Baz. . .

In CA PVC pipe is the only way to go, but be careful, buy the larger walled schedule 40 pipe. Both the flexible black pipe and the thin walled schedule 80 PVC pipe have been known to burst even while buried in the CA sun.

Learned that one the hard way.

The thin walled variety is actually Schedule 30. Most in the business just refer to it as "thin wall". Schedule 80 is the thick grey pipe used by electricians (they call it conduit) and fittings. In irrigation you'll see it used sometimes for irrigation risers and nipples, although I have a dislike for how the threads are hard to spin so I typically use Poly for all my risers and nipples.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

In these parts of the country almost all the pros install and support the Rainbird Professional line. Not the Rainbird stuff from the big box stores. Go to a contractor supplier. Some industrial building with pickup trucks and large pipe racks on top in the parking lot. The biggest Rainbird pro sales company in town will not sell to non professionals. They don't want to take the time to explain how things work to Mr. Homeowner. They want the sales volume of a professional and the simple order and sell it. No time spent telling them how to do it.

I have one smaller company that will sell to me. He wants business more and will talk to me about the different problems. And yea, there is a difference in the product itself. The professional line will last longer. I have most of the heads in my system that are 21 years old. Still working like they are supposed to. I have a 1.5 HP 220 volt well pump at 200 feet in a 220 foot well. It puts out 18 GPM. It is only for watering the yard. We have city supplied water and sewer. The cost of adding a second water meter just for a sprinkler was more than putting in a well. And I have no water bill for the well, and I can water when the city has rationing.

I have bought less than a dozen heads in the 21 years. Some were mangled by the mower, some just were full of crud.

FWIW, the irrigation suppliers around here cater to homeowners as well as the pros. Prices are a little higher but you get the advice and also as you said the contractor grade materials.

Originally Posted by CMDR Perry

Thanks for the replies Glen and Baz. Baz do you know if any sprinkler manufacturer offers a valve controller that has a programmable overlap timing feature? I.E. the zone 2 supply valve opens for 5 seconds before the zone 1 valve closes. This is a standard automated CIP feature that minimizes line pressure spikes. DP

I don't know of such a controller but I bet there are other methods of mitigating that issue. Not sure if you are talking about "water hammer" or not but that's something that is a concern in some systems I've heard about but I've never personally had the deal with it. Maybe you could do a Google search with that term and see if that helps (?)

Originally Posted by Zeke

I would have added a section of iron pipe through the maze of roots. Or at least Sched 80.

Indeed - using a sleeve is a good idea, but looks like DP removed enough root that it will be a while until that issue comes up again, if it does at all. But a good idea nonetheless.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I bought a Rainbird professionl controller 21 years ago. It was set up for a water well. There is a separate box for a relay the controls the pump. The controller knows to open the control valve, then kick on the pump. It opens the new section then closes the old section so there is no pressure spike. So at least 21 years ago they were doing it. The controller I have has 4 different program modes, and 4 different programs per mode. So in the spring or fall when the weather is cooler and the evaporation and drying are less I can have one program. When it get summer HOT the next mode can be changed to take care of that.

It even has one mode that I set up for a drought period. It will water each section for 6 minutes, wait 30 minutes and do that again three times. That gives all the water time to soak in and no runnoff.

I have never need the fourth mode. It is a really complex timer to set up. I am sure they have them now that are Wi-fi and can be adjustedby your phone or computer.

Hey Glen. Most controllers set up for valves will go through the sequence of programing in order - as you said. But I don't believe they turn on the next valve BEFORE shutting off the previous valve. I think it's done simultaneously. Current goes from one solenoid to the next in the blink of an eye.

Now of course in some cases it takes a while for the water to push out of the previous running zone....but that doesn't have any effect on what happens with the next zone wrt pressure spike or water hammer.

[RNajarian]

^^ thanks Baz. I stand corrected.

I must have been thinking Schedule 40 vs. schedule 20.

It has been a while since I laid pipe.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

^^ thanks Baz. I stand corrected.

I must have been thinking Schedule 40 vs. schedule 20.

It has been a while since I laid pipe.

No worries.....I knew what you meant.

I have to think hard myself when it comes to oil viscosity.....hmmmm......is 30 heavier than 50....or vice versa.....

[GH85Carrera]

Baz, that is possible, but my controller has a mode for running the water well relay. Back when I bought it, I was concerned about high pressures or water hammer. The guy show me in the set up instructions where is mentioned it does open the new valve, and then close the old section.

And all of my sections have automatic drains. Even after the new section valve opens up it takes 15 or 20 seconds to fill the laterals. I overengineered everything to be "overbuilt" and not just good enough. The main line is all 2.5 inch from the well to each valve. Each section has 1 inch lines running to the head. Then of course it is reduced to 1/2 inch to connect to the head. I did not ever want to say to myself, dang I wish I had more flow on that section. The system has evolved and changed as the wife put in new flower beds. Heads were moved, and added and changed around. Now there is just one section that is maxed out and needs the full 18 GPM due to more flower beds and extra heads.

One challeng for my house is the well is in the back yard at the far end of the property. I have an HUGE driveway and no way practical way to get under it. So the main service line goes all the way across the back yard, down the east side of the yard, and all the way to the west part of the front yard. It does go under some standard sidewalks but that is easy. It is a long run, so I wanted as little flow restrictions as practical.

I ended up drawing a to scale map of my yard and house and setting up 12 foot circles for each head. Everything is schedule 40 or better. The pump is on screw together 3 inch pipe so if the pump needs to be pulled they should be able to reuse the pipe.

My final section is a sand filter back flow so it cleans the filter after each use.

[techman1]

Guys, and Baz.
A tip to make the drudge work of repair a lot easier.

I dig around the repair site, and a little deeper than needed.
Grab a hose, and rinse everything off. The water level is above the repair?
No problem, grab the hand bilge pump (Starts at $27 on Amazon) and pump it out.
The pump is made for dirty water! Dry off the pipe, and go to town.

My neighbor saw me doing that, went and got one for himself!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by techman1

Guys, and Baz.
A tip to make the drudge work of repair a lot easier.

I dig around the repair site, and a little deeper than needed.
Grab a hose, and rinse everything off. The water level is above the repair?
No problem, grab the hand bilge pump (Starts at $27 on Amazon) and pump it out.
The pump is made for dirty water! Dry off the pipe, and go to town.

My neighbor saw me doing that, went and got one for himself!

I have done that type of thing in the past. It is great for normal soil, but the clay "soil" we have is like working with potters clay when it gets wet, but even worse than potters clay our is brick red, and will stain your clothes, hands and fingernails.

[techman1]

Yep. Normal soil here in Florida. Mostly. Remember some bad clay stuff in North Florida, and sliding off a wet country road. Nightmare getting back on the road.