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Ferrino's Avatar
 
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Kia Factory Paint Failure

I'd really appreciate some thoughts/opinions/strategies on how to navigate the factory paint which is failing on our 2016 Kia Sedona minivan (pearlescent white paint, owned from new). We take care of this car and plan to run it for a long time, so we're keen to get it fixed.

We started noticing the base/clear layers flaking off on the tailgate (lower-right corner of glass) about 6 months ago. It was pretty small back then, but has grown much worse. To clarify, no damage/impact was sustained to this area. Went to the dealer we purchased vehicle from and they told us the inevitable: you're out of the 3-year window, you're out of luck. Told us to send pics to Kia and see if they would help us with repair costs after getting some quotes. I guess I'm pretty naive to think they would give us any other reaction, but this is a 5 year-old paint job that is falling apart with no apparent catalyst other than an errant paint application process.

So I go off and do a little research and find that there are lots of report of this white pearlescent paint failing across the Kia family of this period. I give the car a more thorough inspection and, sure enough, I notice that the same flaking is occurring on the leading edge of the roof, by the top of the windshield! So it appears to be a formulation/application issue, given it is not localized anywhere.

Anyway, I call Kia and they reply to the effect of "oh, it's the pearlescent white paint - we've been seeing that a lot", despite there not being any formal recall. I was told to get 2 quotes to repaint, submit the pics/quotes and they would look over the case.

I got 2 quotes (both were approx. $2,500 to repaint tailgate and roof alone) and will be submitting them. I'm not convinced every surface of the car is not going to delaminate, but the shops were not interested in quoting a complete repaint, since they can only estimate based on existing damage.

So I guess my question is: has anyone been in this situation before and what is a realistic/good outcome? Are there any strategies I should use to get Kia to help out with the costs? Presumably Kia wants to retain a customer (we love everything about the vehicle except for this issue), or am I being naive again, given I would not expect a customer experiencing this to buy another of my cars!

Pics below were taken a month or so ago and the areas have since expanded...

Many thanks!





Old 08-13-2020, 12:43 PM
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Wow, that looks like it failed at the paint/primer interface.
Is the van garaged at night?
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Old 08-13-2020, 01:54 PM
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Call Kia Customer Care and get them involved. I had an engine blow on a Hyundai Veloster and they stepped up to cover all but about $700 of the engine replacement.

I think if you get the pictures of the paint to the proper person, Kia will step up and help but you have to be persistent.

And whether it was garaged or not, the paint and primer never bonded. Putting it in a garage wouldn't prevent what happened from happening. A car wash would have taken the paint off at some point.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Douglas View Post
Wow, that looks like it failed at the paint/primer interface.
Is the van garaged at night?
No, it sits outside. But so does our 10 year-old Mazda, which has paint that still looks as good as day 1.
Old 08-13-2020, 02:04 PM
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Send pics of the mazda to kia when you send them pics of the van.

That'll help get their attention pronto.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:07 PM
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The entire vehicle is likely going to need stripping and repainting if the primer isn't adhering. It's just a matter of time.

Porsche? Pull the glass and trim, strip and repaint. Kia? Patch it as needed.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
The entire vehicle is likely going to need stripping and repainting if the primer isn't adhering. It's just a matter of time.
Exactly. But the repair shops I've visited will only quote me on existing damage, despite the probability that every panel is affected. I guess I need to find another body shop...
Old 08-13-2020, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
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Exactly. But the repair shops I've visited will only quote me on existing damage, despite the probability that every panel is affected. I guess I need to find another body shop...
If it's $2,500 for two spots, the entire vehicle will be $10k. Then what?

You will have better luck trading it in to Kia and getting a 'credit'. They probably aren't paying to fix it correctly.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrino View Post
Exactly. But the repair shops I've visited will only quote me on existing damage, despite the probability that every panel is affected. I guess I need to find another body shop...
I don't agree with every panel being affected. My brother had the pain on the roof of his truck fall off in big flakes leaving he better part of the roof with nothing but primer. Only spot on his truck that had that issue. Any number of things could have caused a bad bond in the spots you're seeing issues.

A shop will be able to tell how severe the peeling might be the moment they put a sander on it.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:18 PM
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If they're only going to 'spot' fix it, you need to consider where the 'cut' lines are for the areas they will be painting.
I can see the tailgate as an easy one, as the shut lines provide a good cutoff.
The roof is another story.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990C4S View Post
If it's $2,500 for two spots, the entire vehicle will be $10k. Then what?

You will have better luck trading it in to Kia and getting a 'credit'. They probably aren't paying to fix it correctly.
or to sell it

the best realistic/good outcome is dump this cheap ride and get a nice Honda mini-van

there is a reason they sell for less than a Japanese car...
Old 08-13-2020, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Douglas View Post
If they're only going to 'spot' fix it, you need to consider where the 'cut' lines are for the areas they will be painting.
I can see the tailgate as an easy one, as the shut lines provide a good cutoff.
The roof is another story.
OP's first post said the roof and tailgate were to be painted. I see no cut line issues and if they get the paint match close, which a good shop can do, I don't see a need to blend/dust into the rear quarters or the rear bumper facia. Rear bumper facia color is usually a touch off anyways.

I am confident Kia will pay the $2,500.

I would ensure the tailgate and roof are stripped. I would perform massive due diligence to assess their paint matching skills with pearl. Watch some YouTube vids on how to match tri-coat pearlescent paints. It's not easy. If they give you the "We can't guarantee a match" then perhaps walk. I would like to see them demonstrate some concern, if you understand what I am saying. I know it's a PITA to ride herd on a production shop but this time it's worth it. Personally, I would not freak out about a slightly imperfect match but the deal is when you walk around the car the hues change. I would like that to be close for you.

Roof is meaningless as there's no real panels to match against it.

I have had no luck painting pearl and I've tried but I'm just a hack that can wet sand and polish.
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Last edited by Bob Kontak; 08-13-2020 at 03:07 PM..
Old 08-13-2020, 03:02 PM
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Thanks all. Yes, the quotes I received was to paint the entire tailgate and roof panels - no blending mid-panel. And yes, the tailgate would be completely disassembled.

I did ask how much they would charge for a complete repaint - they guessed around $7,500. I have seen examples of this paint failing in other areas - most notably the A-pillars and hood.

Interestingly, it looks like Acura has a recall out for a similar paint failing on the roof and tailgate (link).

So it seems that Kia are internally aware of the failure with this paint color, but have stopped short of an official recall.
Old 08-13-2020, 04:31 PM
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Honda has these problems too. I talked to a body shop a couple weeks ago about my sister’s Pilot. It’s already had one door painted, now it’s getting the roof done. It needs the hood and LF fender as well, but the paint loss isn’t big enough to get Honda’s attention yet. Honda is picking up 80% of the cost, they don’t have any programs on her model year, I think it’s a 2011. They have quite a few programs for other years and models.

When I talked to the body shop, he said the white paint used on my sister’s Pilot is notorious for the problem. They also have some bad paint drift issues at the factory, he has something like 20 or 30 different shades to start out with when trying to match the color.

Bottom line, the squeaky wheel usually gets greased. Start with the service manager at the dealership, then get with the dealer rep when he makes his monthly rounds.
Old 08-13-2020, 05:10 PM
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You just need to have them agree to pay for any future failures, if you agree to this partial fix.
Do not take their offer if it precludes further claims.

I would contact a Lemon Lawyer as well, as you are not alone.
No experience, but these lemon lawyer guys have been around for decades.
I’ll bet there is one in your state.

Last edited by Ziggythecat; 08-14-2020 at 04:39 AM..
Old 08-14-2020, 04:36 AM
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I've seen lots of vehicles in parking lots and on the road over the years with paint that appears to be bad factory paint (pretty obvious when you see the same make or make/model and year range over and over again with the same problems.

It seems that 99% of the time, the top surfaces are the most affected, maybe also front and back. The sides of the car are rarely impacted. I can only assume/guess that it's due to those surfaces more directly facing the sun and/or has rain/water/dirt sit on it more.

So, if I had a great car that I wanted to keep forever with this issue, then I'd want a full repaint, but if this was an appliance, I'd probably be ok with the car being painted in spots.

I'm kind of surprised that the OP didn't see issues on the hood too.

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Old 08-14-2020, 05:20 AM
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