2002 996 Cab with bad engine

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

How is it possible to spend $4k to R&R an engine?

I wouldn't even consider that.

That’s what I’ve been telling him. A nutless monkey could do it in 2 hours w a shop hoist and tools. Someone needs to make a boat payment, as the old saying goes.

[fastfredracing]

Its not a 71 t, Book pays 17.6 hours for a long block. That is more or less, what the r@r guy would be responsible for .
Thats pretty much 2k depending on hourly rate .
I know this one supposedly has a new clutch, but throw in a cluch, fluids, bleeding the cooling system, and evacuate, and recharge the ac, and you are not all that far off the mark.
I could see that being 3 pretty easily .

[sammyg2]

Personally, I'd budget a maximum of $10k to fix it.

If it cost more than that, I'd donate the mess and write it off.
Otherwise it's throwing good money after bad.

[Eric Coffey]

^^^ I'd say throwing any money at a 200k mile 996 Cab with a "toasted" engine (if that's actually the case) is already throwing good money after bad. Spending anywhere near $20k on a rebuild would be an exercise in maximizing ones losses.
The OP asked about value, so I am guessing re-sale is a consideration. Unfortunately, the 996 Cab is probably the least desirable 911 ever made. Even worse if it's an automatic, and/or AWD, and/or has unpopular interior/exterior colors.

So, the only practical options to stop the bleeding would be to donate it, or part it out. The latter will net you more money than a comparable tax deduction (eventually), but at the "expense" of time/space/labor/aggravation/etc.

If one is hell-bent on tackling such a project (sentimental value, etc.), then maybe look at picking up a donor car with a good engine and just do a swap. Currently there are 20+ 996s on IAAI and another 18+ on Copart. You can probably snag a lower-mileage one with front-end only damage on the cheap, then part the rest of it (and the bad engine) out. It would be a calculated gamble, but you would likely come out in the black with the right donor/purchase.
But again, that route would be a major PITA vs. just donating the subject car and moving on. YMMV...

[fastfredracing]

When I was shopping for a motor for mine , copart cars were bringing pretty strong money. By the time I bought the car, paid fees, and hauled it home and parted it out, I was still paying 5-7 k for a used motor with an unknown history .
It was still a pretty big gamble .
I think Id just purchase from a wrecker, at least you would get a 30 day warranty. Unless you are hell bent on pulling 2 motors, installing one, and parting a donor car .
A 996 with case, or cylinder damage, is a loser . It is doubtful it just needs a head gasket, or air oil separator

[Steve Carlton]

I haven't seen the car. I'm told it's silver/black and in mint condition and well cared for to now. The actual value of it is relevant to those like us who don't want to be in a car worth $10-20K for $30K. This guy loves this car and is emotionally attached, so people will spend more than a car's worth to keep it going. I don't suspect RMG is a big expert on what the car's worth, but they thought $20-25K. I'm sure a fresh motor would add a good bit. Denis thinks it's worth less than $10K. I could see that being the case with just a solid, running original motor. I'm still not clear on what it's worth in pristine condition with everything good (including tires) and a quality rebuilt motor. I'm also not so sure what he's going to get for $16K in Reno. Labor rates in CA are approaching $200/hr, so if it's an 18 hour job and there's some hoses and what not, I could see $4K. RMG thought $4K was about right.

What's the dollar range to repair an engine if the tensioner collapsed? If it ran while going onto the flat bed, it doesn't sound catastrophic. What's a healthy, 100K mile example of one of these bastard red-headed step children? Not the actual car, but a silver 2002. I don't know if it's AWD or not, stick or not. Doesn't seem too ugly to me:

[Arizona_928]

There's nothing as expensive as a cheap Porsche...

Better off burning the money to stay warm in winter...

[beepbeep]

Only way that car is salvageable from economic point of view is if you do all yourself and have either a good donor engine or are lucky and valves did not kiss the pistons.

Otherwise, sell it as is.

[speeder]

The rear section, (behind doors), is about as ugly as it gets. I'm not sure what happened at Porsche in the late '90s wrt rear sections but the early Boxsters and 996 cabs had some of the worst proportions ever foisted on the public. It's as though they hired the guy in charge of the AMC Pacer and then cut his pay and made him wear a blindfold. I think that they finally fired him after the first Panamera, when people were puking in the streets after looking at it.

The latest 911 variants, starting w 991.1 cars, are the best looking convertibles w top up or down they have ever made, at least from a proportion standpoint. It sure took them long enough.

[javadog]

Here's what I'd suggest before going any further. Answer a few basic questions:

Was this the original engine?
What condition was the original IMS bearing in when it was removed?
What replacement kit was used?
Did the shop that performed the IMS bearing replacement do it correctly, by setting the engine to TDC on number 1 and pulling both tensioners?
How many miles between the replacement and failure?

Lastly, spend a half hour, drain the oil and pull the sump (13 bolts) and look inside to see what debris is there, if any.

[flskala]

Here's my take... by a used engine and install with upgraded IMS. Have removed engine rebuilt. Once done, decide which motor is better/likely to last longer and sell the other one to recoup $$$. I've been offered at least 3 boxsters with blown motors over the years. Passed on all of them.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

^^^ I'd say throwing any money at a 200k mile 996 Cab with a "toasted" engine (if that's actually the case) is already throwing good money after bad. Spending anywhere near $20k on a rebuild would be an exercise in maximizing ones losses.
The OP asked about value, so I am guessing re-sale is a consideration. Unfortunately, the 996 Cab is probably the least desirable 911 ever made. Even worse if it's an automatic, and/or AWD, and/or has unpopular interior/exterior colors.

So, the only practical options to stop the bleeding would be to donate it, or part it out. The latter will net you more money than a comparable tax deduction (eventually), but at the "expense" of time/space/labor/aggravation/etc.

If one is hell-bent on tackling such a project (sentimental value, etc.), then maybe look at picking up a donor car with a good engine and just do a swap. Currently there are 20+ 996s on IAAI and another 18+ on Copart. You can probably snag a lower-mileage one with front-end only damage on the cheap, then part the rest of it (and the bad engine) out. It would be a calculated gamble, but you would likely come out in the black with the right donor/purchase.
But again, that route would be a major PITA vs. just donating the subject car and moving on. YMMV...

I agree w this whole post but I’d just add that I would gamble on the used motor from a crashed car all day long on a plain 996 cab. If the engine is in a car and can be started and listened to, it’s fine at this time. Simply do the IMS retrofit to it, (unless it’s already been done-BONUS!), and put it in yourself. Stock 996 and 986 body and suspension parts are not in much demand but I’m sure that you could recoup some costs.

Of course we don’t even know if the car in the OP needs an engine. So there is that.

[speeder]

I’ve done a lot of nasty DIY wrenching jobs in my day, (including the RV I’m working on now), R&Ring a 996 engine would be pretty painless if you have a decent work space and good tools.

[fastfredracing]

I find r&r ing water cooled motors a somewhat enjoyable job . It is kind of a bigger job, but very similar to doing an old air cooled motor, just with a lot more plumbing, wiring, and vw like plastic bits . Its not as bad as you would imagine it to be . I bet a competent diy'er with a lift could in and out in a weekend

[speeder]

For sure and newer stuff is always easier going back in than coming out because those ***** line couplers and such are easier to plug in than out.