Are we making things easier to use - or not?
 

Posing the question specifically on the following two models of thermostats.

The top one is the old unit - the bottom one the new improved model.

Seems to me the old style is easier to read, understand, and operate. I especially appreciate the arrows going up and down as opposed to a + and - button.

I also like the value adjust buttons are in a different part of the device than programming buttons.

Your thoughts, please?

Old:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1602467320.JPG

New:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1602467320.JPG

I have the bottom one also for one unit and I have an older non digital for the unit on the other side of the house and it’s so much easier to use. The new one I have to find the instructions whenever I need to program it

I prefer the old one.

The buttons are pretty easy to figure out. The + and - move the desired temp up or down. (that's the smaller of the two numbers on the screen). The "mode" button moves it from 'cool' to 'heat' to 'off'. And the "fan" button turns the fan on or off.

It's the middle one ("menu") that leads to all kinds of other stuff.

But all that said....I agree with you....the older one is easier to use, IMHO.

We’ve used both, but the bottom one is all we’ve used for a while. I don’t program them to run certain days or times, but adjust them all the time when I go in our houses. You just get used to it.

Multi-function buttons SUCK for the user.

BTW, really good Q, Baz

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1602469294.jpg

Thanks for the responses so far.

I didn't mention this - but this is for my 97 year old mother, who still lives on her own - and just had a new system installed - with the new thermostat. And was saying (nice way of saying complaining) that she liked the old one better.

I still have her old one (I kept it and the old capacitor) so am taking it over tomorrow to try and replace the new one with it. Hopefully all the wires in back match up right.

I have the old version (first picture) in my travel trailer and really like it. Easy to use, works well and the battery lasts forever.

When I did the house remodel I got a fancy new fangled one from Lennox, it is really easy to operate and there is an app I can use when I am not at home. Not an issue in the time of covid, but when I travel its convenient.

Being 97 plus living on her own completes this thread.

Keep it the same, or get a retro like above.

In installed a similar to your old one for my 83 year mother who's also on her own. I like to keep things as simple as possible. You guy remember anything go wrong with those round old fashion Honeywell units? They keep on working in many old apartments for years with abuse dished out to them every season. They keep on trucking along.

the question isn't really is new stuff easier to use. The new stuff often does more than the old stuff. If it has greater functionality, then it's probably going to be harder to use.

A single bladed folding knife is easier to use than a swiss army knife with 20 different functions.

If there's a menu button, then chances are the bottom device does more. If one is programmable and the other does not, then the programmable thermostat is going to be more difficult to use.

If they are both programmable, then there's a good chance that the bottom one may be easier to program.

+1

Set 65 for heat
Reset to 76 for cooling.
Set heat at 55 if we are on vacation
Turn a/c off if we are on vacation.

Simple, reliable. Easy to use. Cannot be hacked at all. No BS.

Can eventually have "issues." Our old home had one, and it eventually had issues. Granted, it was probably VERY old. The new fangled stuff is probably far more likely to fail in far weirder ways.

The new Bryant thermostat on the west end of our house is far easier to use than the 20 year old Trane digitals in the east half of the house. The Tranes are tiny and not backlit, so you need to use a flashlight to set them. The Bryant is dark until you walk near it, then it lights up.

The Tranes are on a crappy 20 year old zone system, which doesn't help. There is one zone and one thermostat per floor. Adjusting the temperature on one floor requires setting the thermostats on all three floors to account for their different HVAC loads. Because of the roof and the lack of shade, the 3rd floor is naturally always warmer than the 1st or 2nd floor. It will only try to maintain temps within 4 degrees of each other, so you can set all three thermostats at 70 and the 1st and second floors may get down to 63 while the AC is trying to get the 3rd floor down to 70. We are always running up and down stairs with our flashlight trying to get the right balance of settings so the various floors are at a comfortable temperature.

our previous home was an older ('67) 2 story. We had issues, especially certain times of year, with the 1st and 2nd floors being different temperatures. We only had a single AC unit, so the fix for us was to run the fan independently of the AC. That allowed us to rotate the colder air from downstairs to the warmer air from upstairs.

I wonder if it is possible for you to have a return for the upstairs from the downstairs (and vice versa) to more comfortably balance the temps between the floors. If your upstairs was sucking up the cold air from downstairs, then the upstairs should be cooler.

Our thermostat is 20 years old and works great. Very easy to program, and the only program is to change the temperature when we go to bed. As we are both home 7 days a week there is no leave for work or return from work setting to do. One simple analog switch changes it from heat to AC.

I have never yet understood why I would want my thermostat to have access to the internet. I guess people that travel or have variable hours might want that.

We have thermostats for our floor heat in the bathrooms. They only heat, so no cooling functions of course. They could no be more complex to program if they tried. It is easier to understand women than that thermostat.

Agreeing with above. Expanded functionality/ features are great but if the interface is poorly designed and / or executed it has '0' value to me. I have a technical engineering way of looking at things even though I no formal training. Show me something that looks cool, is cool and intuitive to use.

I have a White Rogers Big Blue.
Good staging for heating and cooling. Once programmed it is easy to live with.
When a common wire is available at the t stat you can have the blue screen up all the time and even adjusted to it's lowest light level, it works as a night light.
I am on my second one in 20 years now. The original locked up a while ago and it is why I keep the old merc bulb stat kicking around.
I had tried one of the Honeywell programmable and wasn't fond of the way it would cycle heat. There are some settings for that but it seemed to me to have far too many cycles per hour even when it was adjusted to the fewest cycles. Don't remember what model it was and maybe it was defective.
Returned it and got another Big Blue.

My issue with thermostats is readability. Especially at night.

Most of the electronic/digital models, at least, that I have experience with, light up if you press a button.

I have an issue when technology is implemented with no real utility as I am sure many of y'all do. New fangled thermostats are useful for timing and changing temps from your phone and that sort of thing IMHO.

I was walking though Home depot about a year ago and overheard a couple debating if they would buy the 4000$ Samsung fridge with the giant LCD built into the door and "IOT" functionality. I should have minded my own business, but just said "you would have to be insane to buy that fridge" as I walked by. They started laughing and the sales guy just gave me an unamused stare.

Mostly I resent that a lot of new stuff is designed for disposal.

I previously had a networked(wifi), programmable thermostat in our old home.

It did not have access to the Internet. It was supposed to, but I don't really need that sort of functionality, and I think the security of most of those sorts of things is so bad that even if I did want the functionality, I would skip it.

What it did have was an API. And someone had created an app that ran on a PC that you could use to configured the thermostat program. You had a webpage that had a display for 7 days of the week and you could see all of the days and the various time changes and use your computer keyboard to punch in what you wanted. It was, IMO, exactly what these things should be.

It was something that I bought in HD. It was branded one thing, but was a rebranded "radio thermostat." I have no idea if the app is still available or what, but it looks like the company is still around.

https://www.radiothermostat.com/

Yep, looks like the app is still available.

http://setyourthermostat.com/tour/

Yea, a fridge that is connected to the internet and has a big display to browse the internet is just stupid in my opinion. If someone wants to buy gadgets that is fine, just don'y use my money.

I still have no idea why anyone at all would want a washer and dryer connected to the internet.

I do carry the internet around with me everywhere right there on my cell phone. I sure don't need it on my fridge.

The programmer for my sprinkler system is 20 years old, and still works great. It was a monster pain to program. It has so many functions to fit every possible need of any yard or garden it is overwhelming. It has 4 different overall programs that can be run one at a time or all 4 at once. Each of the four has 8 channels or timer setting going the 16 different sections. I replace the rechargeable 9 volt battery every 5 years just to be sure I never loose the program in a power outage. I would likely cry if I had to figure it out again.

I did see my neighbor's sprinkler system control unit that is all programmable from a computer. That would makes sense. Especially to be able to save the program and re-upload it needed. The unit I saw was all WIFI and and the unit goes in the garage as far as possible to get from my router. So I would likely need a repeater, and that setup. I decided if my system ain't broke, it works perfect, why fix it?

Backlighting!

rjp

Aaah, the joys of the designing the human interface. IMO - here is what happens during the design phase. At some point the task of programming the interface is given to one of the electronic engineers with a limited time and budget. The buttons and lights/etc. needed are agreed to very early because the tooling needs to get started. Initially the time/budget included getting reviews/etc. maybe pulling people over 65 in off the street to see if they could get the device to do what they wanted. Then, reality hits, unforeseen issues arise, but the budget and time don't expand and the programming barely gets done and testing is limited. Changes that might be wanted for the mechanical parts are not possible having been locked in weeks/months ago. A presentation is made where the engineer shows how it works and all seems fine, of course he/she makes the programming look easy and there is no more time anyway to make changes. That's the design that goes out the door and into the field. Who writes the instruction manual is another story. In my experience that is the one of the last tasks to complete.
This could be a jaded view but I've been there. Possibly industry has completely changed but I doubt it.
Some like controls where the timing and other attributes can be setup, some don't - they just want to be able to get the system to run without reading a bunch of directions. As I get older I fall more into the later category.

I have a fan.

Get an 8 year old to program it for you .

I figure they find they go find the top geek-nerd engineer (the alpha geek) that has never looked any woman in the eyes, and only looks at his shoes, not even the other engineers shoes.

The guy that designed the switches and input and the firmware. He designed it, so it is easy for him to program the device. For sure no users from the general population are asked to try it as a test, they might have to interact with an extrovert!

I was looking at some thermostats last night online and there's a fair variety of them which seem more straight forward to operate than this new one the contractor installed on Friday in my first post - photo #2.

I think for now I will go back through the operations of this new one with Mom and see if she's OK with understanding and operating it. If not, I still have her old one, and will take the easiest route and just put that one back in - hoping the wires will match up OK.

I will also try to position it a little lower - as Mom has lost an inch or two over the years - so this will help operations as well.

Thanks for all the input!

It's for Mom?

I'd buy wifi so you can control it from your house.

Rebates from utility company around here. Florida doing anything?

Yes - for Mom.

I called the contractor and was told if I fiddled with the thermostat - it would void the warranty.

So they are going to come back and do what's needed.

Ideally re-install the previous thermostat but a little lower so Mom can see it better.

To her credit, today when I was over there she seemed to understand how the buttons worked on the new one. We'll see what the tech can do.

I was at Winn Dixie picking up provisions for her earlier and the girl at the deli said both her grandmothers are still alive...one is 99.....the other 93. Both at assisted living facilities. Which is where Mom might be heading too in the near future.

Anyway - that's all I know at this point. Everything is a process, huh? SmileWavy

“Over-featurization” is a curse.

Sure, there are some products that really ARE much better with additional features but when somehow there’s a need fo introduce a microprocessor into literally EVERYTHING (toothbrushes included now...) it’s gone too far.

I seriously wonder how screwed we’d be if NK lobbed a nuke into low orbit and detonated it (EMP). Most cars, virtually all banking, electrical grids, non-hardened communications (like cell phones), etc. would be bricked in an instant for millions.

One reason I like simple, Luddite type stuff for a lot of things! Sure computers are really cool and make life better for some things but when we get to the point where our very survival depends on them working properly then that’s too far - not a place I choose to go.

Timely post! I had a new HVAC system installed in my home August of last year. We put in a new thermostat at the same time. I came home this afternoon to a warm house. Checked the thermostat and it was completely blank. In a near WTF? moment I remembered having to put a pair of AAA batteries in the thermostat when we installed it. Sure enough, a new pair of batteries and she was up and cooling again.

Most thermostats have a common terminal and will draw power from the furnace 24 VAC transformer if you have enough wire in the wall to do that. Not all.

Some will even run a the small amount of power required to run the stat through one of the switched loads. Not enough current to energize whatever it is feeding through.

If you pull the stat off the wall and check to see if you have a 5 wire RWBGY or maybe a pair of three wire 18 gauge.

If you have enough wire to do this, the batter simply becomes a backup and lasts a very long time.

I suppose for those that follow the latest trends, and must have the latest updated Iphone, new features are not that big of a deal. If you are like me, technology doesn't mean much, and I have an older Samsung 5 hand-me-down, which is light years ahead of the flip phone it replaced.

I just don't see the need for a "nest", or other digital programmable thermostat, maybe these are the same folks who have remoter control window blinds, and security systems ?

Very weird. Many/most HVAC systems include a wire that goes to the thermostat that has the capability to power the thermostat, at least, that's how my old digital, programmable thermostat worked. I actually ran a new cable from the HVAC to the thermostat because mine didn't have enough wires to provide that power.

That. I ran a new wire with more conductors so I could utilize that power supply.

I don't feel the need for remotely accessible thermostat. But having a programmable thermostat is or can be more energy efficient.

My brother's 1954 VW bug will still be driving after an EMP. I just wonder how many cars would survive if the car was not running at the time. With no power to the main engine CPU it should survive. Let's hope we never have to find out.