Educate me regarding residential window upgrades

[DavidI]

I plan to replace my old single pane windows with double pane windows. I live in SoCal, so the weather can be very hot or moderate during the winter.

What recommendations and experience do you have?

Thank you, David

[Cajundaddy]

It is all the fashion these days just as granite countertops were 15 years ago. The modern windows look nice, work well but will never pay even 10% of their cost in energy savings. If you have realistic expectations you will get good results. We just replaced a large 12' span double slider with Milgard for $5k. The costs add up very quickly.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

It is all the fashion these days just as granite countertops were 15 years ago. The modern windows look nice, work well but will never pay even 10% of their cost in energy savings. If you have realistic expectations you will get good results. We just replaced a large 12' span double slider with Milgard for $5k. The costs add up very quickly.

This is good advice. I sold and installed all manor of doors and windows for 25 years. The biggest benefits to new windows is quiet and clean, followed by comfort as drafts are dramatically reduced. That means better overall temperature control for the whole house.

If you or anyone has any specific questions, post them here or PM me. I can even arrange for a discount purchase. But you will have to do the work yourself which isn't difficult (until it comes to patio doors).

[Rot 911]

To add to the above, unless you are doing a total frame out replacement, the replacement windows will have a slightly smaller total glass area than the original windows.

[serene911]

The low-E coating is a good option, I would not buy in to the argon gas filled units though.
Not necessary ,as Zeke said they will be clean and quiet. You will notice how the house is
quieter.

[devodave]

This is an Andersen 400 Series Double Hung window in Low E4, 36 x 60 with custom divided lights in the upper sash. In 2019, with all hardware and screen, was $556 from Home Depot. It's the trim around the window that sets it apart form the normally plain look. The trim is all closed cell PVC, CertainTeed, in this case, but similar to Azek or Royal. Your options may vary. Plus, with COVID, who knows! I have tried to get additional LP Siding form Lowes and was told that LP wont even talk to them until December!

[John Rogers]

Be sure to check the laws and rules covering window replacement in the city or county where you live. As an example, where I live as long as the opening is not increased no permits are required so window replacement means to remove the original glass and measure carefully to get the size that slides into the existing frame. When I did ours a couple years ago I used a tube and a half of the sealer to insure the windows had no leakage. The store where I bought mine had the sealer which is much stronger than the kind at HomeDepot or Lowes and I bought several large clamps to pull the window in very tight before I drilled holes for screws, very long screws, two in each side and four in the top, none in the bottom. Our large bedroom window I ordered one that has both halves move and/or removeable to allow max air flow.

[zakthor]

A few 50 year old frames rotted in my house, kids left windows open in their rooms for years. I ground out all the rot and replaced with new wood, sealed, etc. I used the nicest old growth fir and wood was like $50. Die grinder was the perfect tool.

The double pane in those windows was cracked so slightly fogged. Local window places said $2500 each to make new ones that fit (and 4 months wait.) Unpainted!

Found local glass manufacturer and ordered glass. Double pane, tempered, low e, was $110/window in 24"x46". That new glass is so nice.

New hinges were $12/pair on amazon.

Had to rebuild the sash because they were rotted. Needed to buy a router but still was a day in the driveway. The thing that took time was prepping and painting the wood. I used marine oil paint so was weeks of drying because of all the coats. Will put final coat on in the spring.

Installed now and very happy with result. The painting was tedious and toxic. New glass is thicker and really quiet.

[pavulon]

After only 20 years, my double pane, single hung, true divided light, wood windows are shot. My house and garage have 19 windows total. The quote is $60K for the full set not counting stain or installation. Factory direct Sierra Pacific from right here in town and not true divided light replacements. F me.

[red-beard]

$60K? Holy Crap!

Our house has 23 windows. I know this because I cut plywood covers many years ago for Hurricane protection. Even $500 per window sounds like a very expensive operation.

I have 4-5 windows where moisture is in between. I have another few that the lift assist mechanism is broken, not that we open windows often here (humidity too high). Everything is 2 pane. Low-e was later (house built in 2004).

[Scott Douglas]

We went with Milgard a number of years ago. Whole house plus the family room slider door. Went with Low e glass all around and we were surprised how cool the house was during the winter. We didn't realize just how much solar heating we were picking up from the old windows. Central heating/A/C has cured that problem as the old wall heaters weren't up to the task.
The thing I like about the windows is you can actually open/close them with one hand now. The old aluminum framed ones were not easy. When we moved in I had a screen company come out and rescreen the old ones. The new screens are great on the Milgard's as they are easy to remove for washing, both the windows and screens. We are 7 miles from the beach in two directions so they are open a lot, except when it's 90+degrees out.
When we ordered the slider for the family room they said they'd only do it if they took the old frame out and re-framed it. Glad they did as it is really nice to know all is square and you can't tell the stucco was ever touched outside. Kind of wish we'd been able to do it sooner than we did, but life is what it is.
This window upgrade and replacing the old tilt-up garage door are two of the three best improvements we've made to our house, the third being the HVAC system. Life is pretty comfortable now.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by red-beard

$60K? Holy Crap!

My reaction was more colorful.

[look 171]

Low E glass, (different grades available, so be careful). Not feeling the hot sun on the other side of the window is worth the money. Wood window for an old house or newer style windows to fit a newer house? A Milgard vinyl window just dose not look right in an older house so be careful in terms of design.

[Reg]

My home is 1875 and has many of the original windows. What saved them is a storm window that sits on the outside of the frame. This gives you two panes and sound insulation and airspace between the two panes but no thermal seal.

[island911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

$60K? Holy Crap!

Our house has 23 windows. I know this because I cut plywood covers many years ago for Hurricane protection. Even $500 per window sounds like a very expensive operation....

Yep. For $60k one could build a window building factory.

I expect that most window businesses spend more on ad's than on production.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by look 171

Low E glass, (different grades available, so be careful). Not feeling the hot sun on the other side of the window is worth the money. Wood window for an old house of newer windows for a newer house. A Milgard vinyl window just dose not look right in an older house so be careful in terms of design.

Usually I agree with you 110% but there are some composite divided light windows that are pretty good looking from a historical point of view. What I don't get is that when I drive the neighborhood 90% of the windows are white. That is not necessary. But it's cheap.

In CA Title 24 requires LowE squared and argon. I agree that argon is not worth much in mild climate. But that's the fooking state for you, they don't study the effects. If I live in N. Dakota, I'd have argon for sure. I'd also use composite rather than vinyl.

Believe it or not, just dual pane is not that different energy wise than single pane. But the rest of the window design and construction makes a world of difference. Believe me, if you want to go full on window engineering and pontificate on windows in general, there is enough information to fill a thick book.

Bottom line is most new windows are a huge improvement over 50 YO ones. No rocket science there. I'd minimize the investment but get what looks good to you and for the house.

For instance, I have put Andersen vinyl clad windows in the front of many houses and did Milgard for the rest. The two vinyl colors match, but the interior of the Andersen is wood. So easy to paint or stain to match the décor. Other than the kitchen, most folks have window treatments in front of the window in bedrooms, etc., so it doesn't make sense to spend 2.5 times as much for those.

Regarding John Roger's post, CA has tightened the egress requirements so be SURE to understand those regs as it could have an effect on resale or worse if there happened to be a fire. This applies to a simple size for size change out:

"For determining egress window sizes and placement, the International Building Code holds that every bedroom must contain at least one egress window. It must be at least 5.7 square feet, that is at least 20 inches wide by 24 inches high, with an opening no higher than 44 inches from the floor." (copied from Google)

[RWebb]

price is crazy

avoid Pella and Milgard

Anderson & Marvin have various lines which are good quality and reasonable in price

you would ideally like a tint that cuts UV and some visible light

an awning is best for reducing sunlight

you might wait a bit and see if any subsidies for energy efficiency are enacted in the next year or so

swing outs seal better than other designs; sliders are the worst

the installer may be zipping the price up; be sure they put the right "tapes" over the sil, etc. - google to find out how


also Argon fill reduces heat coming in on a hot day - only the coast is really 'mild' IMO

[look 171]

Milgard is not in the same league with Marvin. Completely different animal. What wrong with Pella and Milgard? Pella and Anderson are pretty close with their mid grade products.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Reg

My home is 1875 and has many of the original windows. What saved them is a storm window that sits on the outside of the frame. This gives you two panes and sound insulation and airspace between the two panes but no thermal seal.

I was going to suggest storm windows. A less expensive but not as attractive option.

[look 171]

Dave, if its an older house, try and swing for a alum. clad window. It will look great and fits the house well along with all the energy performance benefits.