Pelican Parts Forums
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)
-   -   Simple Cloth Masks (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1076783-simple-cloth-masks.html)

RWebb 10-28-2020 05:07 PM
Simple Cloth Masks
 
are not worthless

https://scitechdaily.com/contagion-transmission-model-estimating-risk-of-airborne-covid-19-with-mask-usage-social-distancing/

pmax 10-28-2020 06:06 PM
Nov 4

fintstone 10-28-2020 06:19 PM
Prove that they are effective at stopping the transmission of COVID 19.

legion 10-28-2020 06:29 PM
Don't do a damn thing.

Jeff Higgins 10-28-2020 06:31 PM
Yes they are. Almost as worthless as that article.

red-beard 10-29-2020 05:08 AM
WSJ Today:

Masks Are a Distraction From the Pandemic Reality

Viruses inevitably spread, and authorities have oversold face coverings as a preventive measure.

Quote:
A hallmark of Covid-19 pandemic policy has been the failure of political leaders and health officials to anticipate the unintended consequences of their actions. This tendency has haunted many decisions, from lockdowns that triggered enormous unemployment and increased alcohol and drug abuse, to school closures that are widening educational disparities between rich and poor families. Mask mandates may also have unintended consequences that outweigh the benefits.

First, consider how the debate has evolved and the underlying scientific evidence. Several randomized trials of community or household masking have been completed. Most have shown that wearing a mask has little or no effect on respiratory virus transmission, according to a review published earlier this year in Emerging Infectious Diseases, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s journal. In March, when Anthony Fauci said, “wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better” but “it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think it is,” his statement reflected scientific consensus, and was consistent with the World Health Organization’s guidance.

Almost overnight, the recommendations flipped. The reason? The risk of asymptomatic transmission. Health officials said mask mandates were now not only reasonable but critical. This is a weak rationale, given that presymptomatic spread of respiratory viruses isn’t a novel phenomenon in public health. Asymptomatic cases of influenza occur in up to a third of patients, according to a 2016 report in Emerging Infectious Diseases, and even more patients had mild cases that are never diagnosed. Asymptomatic or mild cases appear to contribute more to Covid-19 transmission, but this happens in flu cases, too, though no one has called for mask mandates during flu season.

The public assumes that research performed since the beginning of the pandemic supports mask mandates. Policy makers and the media point to low-quality evidence, such as a study of Covid-19 positive hairstylists in Missouri or a Georgia summer camp with an outbreak. These anecdotes, while valuable, tell us nothing about the experience of other hairdressers or other summer camps that adopted similar or different masking practices. Also low-quality evidence: Videos of droplets spreading through air as people talk, a well-intended line of research that has stoked fears about regular human interactions.

red-beard 10-29-2020 05:13 AM
Continued

Quote:
Rather, the highest-quality evidence so far is studies like the one published in June in Health Affairs, which found that U.S. states instituting mask mandates had a 2% reduction in growth rates of Covid-19 compared with states without these mandates. Because respiratory virus spread is exponential, modest reductions can translate into large differences over time. But these shifts in trajectory are distinct from the notion that mandating masks will bring the pandemic to an end. Based on evidence around the world, it should be clear that mask mandates won’t extinguish the virus.

The most reasonable conclusion from the available scientific evidence is that community mask mandates have—at most—a small effect on the course of the pandemic. But you wouldn’t know that from watching cable news or sitting next to a mother being forced off an airplane because her small children aren’t able to keep a mask on.

While mask-wearing has often been invoked in explanations for rising or falling Covid-19 case counts, the reality is that these trends reflect a basic human need to interact with one another. Claims that low mask compliance is responsible for rising case counts are also not supported by Gallup data, which show that the percentage of Americans reporting wearing masks has been high and relatively stable since June. Health officials and political leaders have assigned mask mandates a gravity unsupported by empirical research.

On even shakier scientific ground is the promotion of mask use outdoors. One contact-tracing study identified only a single incident of outdoor transmission among 318 outbreaks. Even the Rose Garden nomination ceremony for Justice Amy Coney Barrett, which the media giddily labeled a “superspreader” event, likely wasn’t; transmission more likely occurred during indoor gatherings associated with the ceremony.

By paying outsize and scientifically unjustified attention to masking, mask mandates have the unintended consequence of delaying public acceptance of the unavoidable truth. In countries with active community transmission and no herd immunity, nothing short of inhumane lockdowns can stop the spread of Covid-19, so the most sensible and sustainable path forward is to learn to live with the virus.

Shifting focus away from mask mandates and toward the reality of respiratory viral spread will free up time and resources to protect the most vulnerable Americans. There is strong evidence that treating patients early in outpatient settings can be effective, as outlined in a recent American Journal of Medicine paper, but these treatments are underused. Identifying effective treatments for hospitalized patients with Covid-19 is essential, but preventing severe illness before hospitalization will save more lives.

Until the reality of viral spread in the U.S.—with or without mask mandates—is accepted, political leaders will continue to feel justified in keeping schools and businesses closed, robbing young people of the opportunity to invest in their futures, and restricting activities that make life worthwhile. Policy makers ought to move forward with more wisdom and sensibility to mitigate avoidable costs to human life and well-being.

Dr. Ladapo is an associate professor at UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine.
Article Links

CDC publication on Mask use effectiveness (not very)
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

(Mask Mandates only 2% reduction)
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

(Poll of people using masks)
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/321698/covid-responses-men-women.aspx

Contact Tracing data
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1

List of Covid-19 Treatments and effectiveness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7410805/

group911@aol.co 10-29-2020 05:29 AM
Nice one. You've got their panties in a bunch now.

red-beard 10-29-2020 05:38 AM
Scitechdaily vs. CDC & NIH

I think I'll listen to CDC and NIH peer reviewed papers

RWebb 10-29-2020 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins (Post 11080794)
Yes they are. Almost as worthless as that article.
yes, scientific studies are worthless

Jeff Higgins 10-29-2020 10:53 AM
That was not a scientific study. Not even close.

RWebb 10-29-2020 11:23 AM
it reports the results of a scientific study.

You're Not even close.

RWebb 10-29-2020 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 11081113)
Scitechdaily vs. CDC & NIH

I think I'll listen to CDC and NIH peer reviewed papers

Did someone tell you that Physics of Fluids is not peer reviewed ??

cabmandone 10-29-2020 02:17 PM
Ya know this will end up in PARF... right webby?

sugarwood 10-29-2020 02:17 PM
Let these selfish unpatriotic ****heads breathe all over their families with no mask.

Dantilla 10-29-2020 02:20 PM
It's using a computer to guess the future, vs. actual results.

I gotta go with actual results.

RWebb 10-29-2020 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11081933)
Ya know this will end up in PARF... right webby?
hopefully not, but there are some bad actors on here who deliberately try to make things move there

Mike80911 10-29-2020 02:44 PM
If masks are so effective and will prevent people from contracting the virus and even deaths then why the uptick in states that require masks? What about the alleged 220,000 deaths did all of those people not wear masks were they "irresponsible and "unpatriotic"? NYC NJ and CT getting ready to shut down the economy again even though every where you look people are wearing masks. I wore a mask at ground zero and still developed respiratory issues and everyday after work when I removed the mask around my mouth and nose was a ring of dust. How did that happen?

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 11081955)
hopefully not, but there are some bad actors on here who deliberately try to make things move there
Anything Covid related gets booted to PARF. It's just the way things work.

RWebb 10-29-2020 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 (Post 11081972)
If masks are so effective and will prevent people from contracting the virus and even deaths then why the uptick in states that require masks?
lack of compliance

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 (Post 11081972)
If masks are so effective and will prevent people from contracting the virus and even deaths then why the uptick in states that require masks? What about the alleged 220,000 deaths did all of those people not wear masks were they "irresponsible and "unpatriotic"? NYC NJ and CT getting ready to shut down the economy again even though every where you look people are wearing masks. I wore a mask at ground zero and still developed respiratory issues and everyday after work when I removed the mask around my mouth and nose was a ring of dust. How did that happen?
Ohio has a mask order in place. There's no enforcement, which there shouldn't need to be, so people don't wear a mask. Recently, WalMart ended their policy that customers entering must wear masks because jackasses made a big deal out of it and caused problems at the store. I know several people now who refused to wear a mask. Two are now dead, One took her mother to the hospital because her mom had covid. Neither wore a mask. The daughter got the virus, took her grandchildren home from school without any wearing a mask. Both grandchildren got the virus as did their mom. A bartender had the virus. 18 people were infected, none wore masks. Would those who died have gotten the virus anyhow? Who knows. But without a mask they got it and they died as a result. I think I would have tested the theory and put a mask on.
This isn't some overly oppressive thing to try. In fact, it's far better than the obvious that will come if the virus keeps spreading and people keep dying. Do we really want to go back to April, May, June? I don't. No one should. Why not give it a try? The opposition to wearing a mask makes no sense to me.

Thank you for your work at ground zero btw. I hope you are well taken care of for what you did.

Mike80911 10-29-2020 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 11082001)
lack of compliance
NY has a large compliance you can not go into a store , restaurant or any public place without a mask yet still cases are increasing.

Mike80911 10-29-2020 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11082011)
Ohio has a mask order in place. There's no enforcement, which there shouldn't need to be, so people don't wear a mask. Recently, WalMart ended their policy that customers entering must wear masks because jackasses made a big deal out of it and caused problems at the store. I know several people now who refused to wear a mask. Two are now dead, One took her mother to the hospital because her mom had covid. Neither wore a mask. The daughter got the virus, took her grandchildren home from school without any wearing a mask. Both grandchildren got the virus as did their mom. A bartender had the virus. 18 people were infected, none wore masks. Would those who died have gotten the virus anyhow? Who knows. But without a mask they got it and they died as a result. I think I would have tested the theory and put a mask on.
This isn't some overly oppressive thing to try. In fact, it's far better than the obvious that will come if the virus keeps spreading and people keep dying. Do we really want to go back to April, May, June? I don't. No one should. Why not give it a try? The opposition to wearing a mask makes no sense to me.

Thank you for your work at ground zero btw. I hope you are well taken care of for what you did.
I am getting treatment and excellent care thank you. The opposition to wearing it is one thing, weather or not it is effective is another. Giving people a false sense of protection is worse than telling people that the protective equipment is not effective.

fintstone 10-29-2020 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 11081630)
Did someone tell you that Physics of Fluids is not peer reviewed ??
Did someone tell you that the "Physics of Fluids" did a study proving simple cloth masks prevent transmission of COVID 19 or studied the transmission of the COVID virus at all?

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 (Post 11082015)
NY has a large compliance you can not go into a store , restaurant or any public place without a mask yet still cases are increasing.
There was a study where something like 85% reported wearing a mask "all the time" and 15% most of the time (IIRC). The problem is, if the 85% wore a mask all the time when out but someone entering their home didn't, that throws the 85% "all the time" right out the window. It's a virus, it's going to spread. Why not do what we can to reduce the spread by what is still considered the greatest path of transmission? Mask, social distancing, proper hygiene.

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike80911 (Post 11082022)
I am getting treatment and excellent care thank you. The opposition to wearing it is one thing, weather or not it is effective is another. Giving people a false sense of protection is worse than telling people that the protective equipment is not effective.
I think there needs to be better messaging. Early on people heard Jerome Adams say "stop buying masks! they don't protect you" and took that as gospel without understanding there's a difference between protecting yourself, and an infected person reducing the spread of viral particles.

People for some reason think that masks are a substitute for social distancing. It's not a one step solution to reduce the spread. It's a multifaceted approach and I think better messaging from the early stages of this would have gone a LONG way.

fintstone 10-29-2020 03:45 PM
Every study that I have seen that actually looked at the transmission of respiratory-transmitted disease has not been able to show there any benefit from wearing cloth masks. That is certainly the case with COVID as well.

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:48 PM
That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.

sugarwood 10-29-2020 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11082059)
That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.
He's a piece of garbage who only cares about himt.

fintstone 10-29-2020 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11082059)
That's because you're reading the study and not understanding the difference between preventing the person wearing the mask from being infected and preventing an infected person from spreading the virus.
No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.

Most are like the study cited by the OP. They make some assumptions (guesses) and apply them to a model that uses a physics equation. It doesn't study/show a single person who got the disease or didn't. It did not study the transmission between people. It only studied a physics model.

group911@aol.co 10-29-2020 03:56 PM
That happened to me once. I had forgotten to plug in my screen. Just a thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11082053)
Every study that I have seen that actually looked at the transmission of respiratory-transmitted disease has not been able to show there any benefit from wearing cloth masks. That is certainly the case with COVID as well.

cabmandone 10-29-2020 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11082078)
No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.
That would depend on what you consider the major path of spread to be. Since large droplet, close contact is considered the major path, any mask capable of capturing large droplets will reduce the spread of the virus.

fintstone 10-29-2020 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 11082067)
He's a piece of garbage who only cares about himt.
Nope, just smart enough to read the words and understand them. Just because you badly want a magic shield doesn't mean that there actually is one. If you had a real argument, you would not need the name-calling.

fintstone 10-29-2020 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11082081)
That would depend on what you consider the major path of spread to be. Since large droplet, close contact is considered the major path, any mask capable of capturing large droplets will reduce the spread of the virus.
No it wouldn't. What you think doesn't prove anything.

cabmandone 10-29-2020 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11082084)
No it wouldn't. What you think doesn't prove anything.
It's not what I think. It's what the people who actually study viral spread think. Until there's proof to the contrary, large particle close contact is the major path of spread. There are studies looking into airborne transmission but as of now they are inconclusive which is why the CDC has not changed their guidelines.

LEAKYSEALS951 10-29-2020 04:07 PM
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1604016192.JPG


Me desperately trying to incorporate masks threads into parf.

Best so far is a PMS-forum "Politics, Masks, and Supernatural forum"

meh....

RWebb 10-29-2020 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11082078)
No. There are no studies that show that wearing cloth masks prevent the spread among anyone.

Most are like the study cited by the OP. They make some assumptions (guesses) and apply them to a model that uses a physics equation. It doesn't study/show a single person who got the disease or didn't. It did not study the transmission between people. It only studied a physics model.
sad you don't "believe in" physics

but you are wrong in your 1st paragraph:

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342198360_Association_of_country-wide_coronavirus_mortality_with_demographics_testi ng_lockdowns_and_public_wearing_of_masks_Update_Ju ne_15_2020


there are also a number of laboratory studies:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2007800

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2#Sec3

fintstone 10-29-2020 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11082089)
It's not what I think. It's what the people who actually study viral spread think. Until there's proof to the contrary, large particle close contact is the major path of spread. There are studies looking into airborne transmission but as of now they are inconclusive which is why the CDC has not changed their guidelines.
I can only respond to what you say.

That said, it doesn't matter what others think either. That is not proof. Studying "transmission" as how it flies through the air is not the same as studying "transmission" ...where people catch the disease or not (with any number of variables) with mask wear or not. For example, your wearing a mask in a grocery store may keep the person in front of you from catching the disease, but may make you or the person behind you catch it...or it may have no effect at all.

If separate components untested together always behaved as we expect, we would not race cars. We would just compare physics models and use our expertise "what we think" as data. It is like assuming that the world was not round because no one fell off...until we knew about gravity.

fintstone 10-29-2020 04:27 PM
Nice try, but no. Those do not prove your case. They do not even claim to.

..and of course I believe Physics...the difference is, I understand Physics...at least a little.

cabmandone 10-29-2020 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 11082105)
I can only respond to what you say.

That said, it doesn't matter what others think either. That is not proof. Studying "transmission" as how it flies through the air is not the same as studying "transmission" ...where people catch the disease or not (with any number of variables) with mask wear or not. For example, your wearing a mask in a grocery store may keep the person in front of you from catching the disease, but may make you or the person behind you catch it...or it may have no effect at all.

If separate components untested together always behaved as we expect, we would not race cars. We would just compare physics models and use our expertise "what we think" as data. It is like assuming that the world was not round because no one fell off...until we knew about gravity.
I'll be honest, I don't even know how to respond to that nonsense. It's truly stunning.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:18 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.