Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 11096284)

I feel fine...

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11095955)

Put another way, I am not sure how herd immunity levels are calculated if vaccinated persons are still able to contract and transmit the virus to each other and to the unvaccinated.

Originally Posted by MBAtarga (Post 11095871)

Any of you "experts" understand how Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are unique from the others? They are using a new technology - mRNA - which has never been used in vaccines. I've read of some experts that are concerned with it's approach. It actually changes every cell in the human body..

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-cure-doctor-moderna-novavax-oxford-a9523091.html

Many vaccines, like for influenza a.k.a flu, use an inactivated virus that is destroyed by heat or chemicals like formaldehyde so that it can elicit an immune response without infecting you. Others — like for measles, mumps, and rubella — use a live attenuated virus that is cultivated in such a way that it makes the virus weak and unable to hurt you but still able to train your immune system to fight it. Moderna’s messenger RNA vaccine, on the other hand, is completely new and revolutionary to say the least. It uses a sequence of genetic RNA material produced in a lab that, when injected into your body, must invade your cells and hijack your cells’ protein-making machinery called ribosomes to produce the viral components that subsequently train your immune system to fight the virus. In this case, Moderna’s mRNA-1273 is programmed to make your cells produce the coronavirus’ infamous spike protein that gives the virus its crown-like appearance (“corona” is crown in Latin) for which it is named.

In many ways, the vaccine almost behaves like an RNA virus itself except that it hijacks your cells to produce the parts of the virus, like the spike protein, rather than the whole virus. Some messenger RNA vaccines are even self-amplifying. That means they encode not only the protein antigen of interest to elicit an immune response but also produce their own RNA dependent RNA polymerase, so that they can force the cell to replicate more copies of it. At that point, it will be hard to convince conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers that a self-amplifying messenger RNA vaccine is not an artificially created self-replicating virus. In fact, public acceptance of this new paradigm is not something to be easily dismissed nor taken for granted. There are unique and unknown risks to messenger RNA vaccines, including the possibility that they generate strong type I interferon responses that could lead to inflammation and autoimmune conditions.

Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 11096453)

If true, it seems that herd immunity does not really occur.


An mRNA vaccine, with blanket immunity for the people producing it.

I am sure it will be just fine

Originally Posted by Neilk (Post 11095690)

I read that Pfizer didn’t take govt money and is not part of Warp Speed, so I guess they can hose us with the price.

Originally Posted by cabmando (Post 11096309)

Well then, I'll give em a good dose of ghostly stink eye and haunt them! That'll teach em!

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 11096303)

The grievance would be a waste of time since these will be administered under a blanket immunity.

Originally Posted by Mahler9th (Post 11096590)

I think the OWS deal with Pfizer may have been primarily focused on "manufacturing at risk" and not much, if at all on financially supporting development and safety and efficacy evaluation. That may be a subtle distinction for some. For most it likely does not matter.

Folks wanting to learn more can start on the HHS web site. Here is a quote:

"July 22: HHS announced up to $1.95 billion in funds to Pfizer for the large-scale manufacturing and nationwide distribution of 100 million doses of their vaccine candidate. The federal government will own the 100 million doses of vaccine initially produced as a result of this agreement, and Pfizer will deliver the doses in the United States if the product successfully receives FDA EUA or licensure, as outlined in FDA guidance, after completing demonstration of safety and efficacy in a large Phase 3 clinical trial, which began July 27th."

Here is the web site:

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/explaining-operation-warp-speed/index.html

Originally Posted by Mahler9th (Post 11096478)

We'll see what happens, of course.

To me it is helpful to remember that the companies that are working on this globally are indeed companies. So there's that.

It is also helpful to remember that the Pandemic is global. And that things like Covax reinforce that: https://www.who.int/initiatives/act-accelerator/covax.

And that some of the companies are or may conduct Phase 3's in areas of the world where there is more virus around.

And that statistics are important, including patient demographics.

And that, for example if a company like Pfizer applies for EAU or approval and get it, their study work won't stop of course.

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11096639)

I think the deal was we pay if your vaccine is approved, otherwise you are SOL. Pfizer has spent nearly $2 billion on this without any significant govt reimbursement.

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 11096637)

If (a big if) these 1st gen vaccines do NOT prevent asymptomatic infection and subsequent transmission but DO protect the vaccinated from serious disease with high efficacy (Pfizer CEO just reiterated in interview that efficacy is “over 90%” and hinted that he doesn’t mean 90.1%),