If you can get Covid twice, how will a vaccine work?
 

I am not anti vax.

There are reports of people getting COVID-19 more than once. From another thread, Fast Fred knows a guy...

If we can get this virus more than 1 time, how will a vaccine work?

Isn’t the mechanism of a vaccine that your body developed an immune response to the dead cells of a virus within the vaccine? This immune response then knows how to fight off live cells of the virus. If your body has successfully fought off Covid once, shouldn’t your immune response prevent you from getting it again?

I’m not arguing if the vaccines work, I want to understand HOW they will work on a virus that you can get twice...

It's a numbers game ... though not a game at all. Almost nothing is 100% ... and just like the flu, maybe the second time is a slightly different "strain"? I have no expertise whatsoever ...

You need to understand how antibodies work.

Antibodies do not stop you from "getting" the virus. It gives your body the ability to quickly fight it off. More antibodies = bigger response. The Moderna vaccine produces 2-4 times the antibodies of a natural infection.

So in realty, anyone who is exposed, gets the virus. But you may not develop the disease or only develop a mild case if you are exposed if you have anti-bodies.

Someone who had a mild case might not have developed a full load of antibodies.

Antibodies also may not "stick around". We may need yearly boosters. This is one of the things being tracked in my vaccine study. 6 months after my second injection they are going to take more blood for the anti-body study.

In fact, the Moderna vaccine works like a booster system. One shot to "prime" you, then a second to get your body to really produce massive antibodies. Which means we may need to a yearly booster probably of a lower level than the initial shots.

Viruses mutate. No one knows how fast Covid-19 mutates, but it could have changed enough not to be recognized by the immune system.

The seasonal flus mutate, that's why you have to get vaccinated every year. The vaccine is different for them every year to try to keep up with the mutations.

The seasonal flu is a recombination of various types of flu. The COVID vaccines are developed to recognize the spike proteins common to these types of virus.

The "common cold" is a Coronavirus. These people may have cured the "common cold".

The mutation rate of the SARS2 virus is being tracked closely, actually. It seems to mutate slowly, and so far not meaningfully. In particular the part of the virus that the vaccines target does not seem to mutate much.

We live in a world free from small pox. Only because of vaccines. Same for the most part for polio and several other deadly diseases.

I received the small pox vaccine twice. The second time it did not "take" so I was still immune.

I will take the vaccine when it becomes available for me.

I have never had a flu shot, nor the flu since I was a kid. Because of my parents, I will get one of these when available.

Um...smallpox still exists, it still breaks out, and it can still run rampant across the planet because almost everyone my age and younger had no vaccine. In 20 years, people who are vaccinated for smallpox in the US will be pretty rare.

The vaccine was only one part of ending the smallpox plague in the 70s. Coordinated effort from governmental agencies across the planet (WHO, CDC, etc), and the African use of containment (shut down and seal the borders of a community infected, and let it burn through the people) went a long way towards stopping a worldwide pandemic.

As far as I know the last naturally occurring case of small pox happened in 1977.

I could be wrong, I though there were small outbreaks in the recent past (10 years).

Last I heard Small Pox was declared eradicated. Polio is being aggressively vaccinated against in the areas where it is still active.

As a kid I had the mumps and that is mostly stopped because of vaccinations. Mumps is a disease no adult male ever wants. The testicles can swell to the size of grapefruits or even bigger.

My dad was an Air Force pilot and traveled all over the world. He filled up two vaccination record books.

yes, slow in relative terms - this virus family has the "ability" to test for and repair errors in the genetic code (RNA for these)

same general idea as a checksum

Small pox has been eradicated.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/index.html#:~:text=Thanks%20to%20the%20success%20o f,occurring%20smallpox%20have%20happened%20since.

There are two stocks of small pox kept in secure ultra cold storage facilities - one in the US and one in Russia (supposedly secure). They are kept in case they are needed for research in case...

... in case a related virus evolves into smallpox again, or something very close to it

or in case we missed something, some natural reservoir of smallpox

and BTW as the arctic warms up, scientists are finding new bacteria that were previously deep frozen

- so stay tuned

It is my understanding where they have found re-infection, it has been the same strain, which is concerning. Also of note is that as opposed to most viral infections, those that get it twice seem to be much sicker the second round.

So to answer the OP, the vaccine is not a magic silver bullet. I had to get the small pox vaccine as a young kid and I don't remember much about it, but I have the scar to prove it. In 1971 we were living in Hawaii and the USAF required our family to get a small pox vaccination to return to the mainland. I kept asking why, as there were no small pox in Hawaii or in the mainland, and of course with the military, it came down to "those are the rules" so I was vaccinated a second time. So even small pox vaccine is not a lifetime cure. We all may have to get a second shot in several months to keep us safe from the Kung Flu.

I remember mine. They covered it with a clear plastic bubble. It scabbed over after a while.

About all I remember was picking at the scab and mom telling me not to.

Regarding short-term Covid "reinfection", I haven't found anything yet that wasn't purely anecdotal, or 100% confirmed with false positive/negative tests completely ruled out, or not involving those with already-compromised immune systems.

With the (genetically stable) characteristics of this virus, an infection via one strain should provide both antibody and cellular immunity for other strains.

As such, a single vaccine will be effective against many strains of Covid, so an ever-changing "cocktail" will not be needed...for now.

I got the small pox in 15'....

In the '50s and '60s girls got their smallpox vaccinations on the inside of their knee, because it left a scar. They didn't want the scar to show on their arms. Then 1965 and mini skirts happened. :D

It is all a numbers game.
Lets say the vaccine is 90% effective. Lets also say 90% of people that get infected with covid have enough antibodies to be safe, but the other 10% do not.
Now I am just making up numbers, and in no way saying these are correct.
But if roughly 10% of people that are vaccinated or have had covid before can get it again- we could go back to normal living. Yes you will hear of people getting sick twice, even 3 times. Yes people will still die of this, just like they die of the flu. But the curve would be such that we could go back to normal- whatever that is.
My guess
gary

I wish my sister would read this thread. She's an anti vax-er. She explained to me that in the bible it says not to be injected with anything. I tried to explain to her back in Jesus's day they didn't have vaccines and injections :rolleyes: but she belongs to some nutty church so she believes whatever they tell her

^^^ so does this mean if she is stung by a bee or bit by a mosquito, she is going to hell?

It may be too late already.

Also - thanks to every who has chimed in. I now have a rough understanding of how this could work. Sometimes the collective brain on this board is amazing.

Eradication can happen if enough of a population is immunized and able to mount an effective-enough response where it keeps the virus from being able to replicate much and infect a new host via sneezing, coughing, whatever.

I think the goal with COVID is twofold: firstly ensure that people - especially vulnerable populations -have antibodies so they don’t develop really bad cases if / when they come in contact with the virus. Secondly, starve the virus of new hosts by minimizing how much infected people replicate and “shed” it.

Once the vaccines get deployed the numbers are going to drop precipitously. It might take a few months to really beat it into submission or “eradicate” it but mass vaccinations are going to definitely have a very noticeable effect.

Disclaimer: not an epidemiologist but I’ve been around enough people who are to have learned a few basics.

My question is, since it came from a commie country, why arent we getting some pay back? Whats wrong we aint got no nutz? CMON MAN!

China will never be held accountable. They own too much of our country’s “leadership” and the people are too addicted to cheap TVs and basketball sneakers to care (not to mention the retarded attention span of 95% of the populace).

We’re domed.

Tell her if that was true, it would sort of put a damper on procreation. :D

No, my understanding is this is not a anti-virus but a modification to the human genome. If so, no one cane anticipate the long term consequences...ever

That is not correct. Please stop spreading misinformation like this.

It is a harmless virus that instructs infected cells to produce the spike protein. Our immune system then attacks the spike proteins and anything with the spike protein.

Exactly.

To add for those who may not know - the only feature in common with the covid virus is the spike construction "data" ( the spike protein is on the outside of the corona virus (hence the name)).

It is harmless.

The whole “anti-vaxxer” movement is just indicative of how many ignorant (or just plain stupid) people there are in the general population. Morons are gonna be morons but they’ve got the right to be. The faster we can get it out there the better.

I and my kids will be getting the vaccine as soon as it’s available for us. I have no issue with that whatsoever.

One "source" said the vaccine will connect you to the internet. That would be cool... :D

Seriously though, being a true "anti-vaxxer" is pretty dumb, IMO. But, having a healthy level of concern should be warranted/acceptable without ridicule. That is, wanting to make sure all of the "kinks" have been worked out before wide-spread dispersal, especially with a vaccine that has been rushed to market. The level of scientific innovation/break-thru is amazing, no doubt. But we have seen vaccine FUBARs before, which likely seeded the anti-vax "movement".
Just do a search on the Dengue vaccine and the consequences of antibody-dependent-enhancement (ADE).

With any virus that can trigger cytokine cascades, I'd want to be sure that ADE (or any other negative consequence) is not an issue with the vaccine, and did not produce differing efficacy/side-effects in those that had previously been infected vs. those who haven't, etc. So, those with legit concerns should not be lumped into the "anti-vaxxer" group automatically, IMO.

The first one was actually the Polio vaccine. 1 of the 5 manufacturers screwed up the attenuation process on a batch and they GAVE polio to a bunch of kids.

BUT the Anti-vax movement ties in with the Autism movement and a doctor claimed, around 1999-2000, that there was a connection with the MMR vaccine, which was Flimsy at the time and disproven. But nothing dies on the internet.

I am probably the only person on this board who has had the vaccine. I read the phase I and Phase II safety data BEFORE I signed up for the Phase III trials. They had good indication of safety and effectiveness. Phase III just puts it to a wide group. And I told many people about it and two of my friends also signed up.

I wanted to DO SOMETHING to help. And I did. And I'm still in the Study. And even if it is approved, I stay in, to see how long the antibodies last.

The best indication so far is that Antibodies last at least 200 days. They only have 200 days of data, so that is a PRETTY GOOD indication that it is very long lasting protection. And the Vaccine produces 2-4 times the antibodies of getting the virus.

I get people are concerned about a new vaccine. Several people on the board have said they will wait a bit. Good. That means others can get it sooner. The supply is limited. Mrs. Beard (who now regrets not getting into the trial) wants the vaccine, so life can return to normal. And I get that too!

By the time regular people can get it, there will be 9 months of data on Phase III and 12 months on Phase I&II people, and 4-5 months on "approved" vaccine people. If there are problems, we'll know soon.

If there is a 1 in a million chance of a vaccine problem (Like the Flu Vaccine), rest well, because that would be way below the mortality rate. The Polio vaccine issue affected a few thousand kids. But that was still better than number getting polio every year. And we've basically killed that sucker off.

Finally, In doing some reading, there is a lot of similarity of COVID-19 to the common cold. No one is really talking this up, but this MAY prevent the common cold...

Yeah, but did you grow a third eye, lose your hair, or have your pecker double in length?

No but I find the small bat wings are handy. They do suck at night if you roll over on them...

You guys talk like there is one singular vaccine.

There are multiple companies that are developing vaccines. They are not the same.

Some of them are mRNA vaccines, which is very unique, new technology, and up until now has not been licensed for infectious disease. It has been used in the oncology field.There are alot of still unknowns.

There is only one that has been approved by a Western Country. And only 2 that will be approved before year end, both Messenger RNA.

For the Biggest supply, Johnson and Johnson single dose. But they are months behind.

As far as I know the FDA has not approved one yet.