Let's Talk About Lever Spoons
 

In a nearby thread several folks mentioned an interest in this or that lever gun. Coincidentally, inexplicably, I had been thinking I need a lever gun. I probably need this as much as I need an F-16 but I already have one of those and so my interest in lever guns remains.

I know there are various models from which to choose and it looks like some good machines are available these days. I also notice they can come chambered for a variety of cartridges. I just want to know more about these guns and get some advice or recommendations. In my ignorance, I am imagining a .45 Cold chambering so that my New Vaquero could use at least some of the cartridges which the lever gun could use. I think the lever gun could handle some rounds which the Vaquero cannot. And I wonder about muzzle velocity. Some of those hotter .45 Colt loads are +P or even perhaps +P+ with 300-325 gr bullets and I just wonder if this gives the rifle some good range and power. Not for elephants and whales but perhaps for deer and elk.

School me up.

Waitin' fer Higgy....

In the meantime.... what "range" are you talking about.... with open sights?

'Cause Higgins would have to shave your hairy palms otherwise....

Any would suffice out to say 100+ yds .... even .357 mag ... or other handspoon rounds.

.Thuddy-thuddy .... classic lever deer rifle.... my first purchase 4 decades ago.

And now we wait ;)....

My apologies, Paul. Post has been edited. It was meant tongue-in-cheek but I think you are right about discretion.

And....I think I used to be worse, actually. I got taken to the woodshed about a year ago and I deserved it.

KC, I think the 'range' question is moot, since this thing will not have a scope. With iron sights, I can't shoot accurately past about 600 yards. That too was meant as a joke.

I've got a Winchester 92 and a Henry, both in 30-30. I like the Winchester over the Henry due to the fact the Henry is "tube loaded" and the Winchester you can load from the side (like you see in the cowboy movies when they're laying behind a boulder).

Now, I did have a Browning B-92 in 357 which I kick myself in the butt for selling. Not manufactured anymore (they made 357 and 44 Mag) but it was a sweet rifle. Sometimes tough to find but they do show up on Gunbroker now and then. Rossi also makes a 357.

I did see one of these for sale recently, hadn't heard of them before but they seem pretty slick...

https://taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan.html

Why a lever gun when you can use a matchlock?

45LC using standard factory ammo (so SAA-safe just about) out of a 16" carbine barrel will lay the thump on piggies and deer, etc. within 50-100 yards IF you can hit the vitals.

Looks like you can get a minor to near 50% boost in speed depending on load and barrel length -

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45colt.html


The big heavy loads may or may not be OK for your lever spoon - depends on which make, when made, etc. Just like on the revolvers. Even if it isn't a pressure issue with the big 300grn stuff the load could be too long to function through the feed system.

I've also been looking (am considering .357 mag) but still haven't bought anything yet.

Henry is now making rifles with side-loading gates.

Some previous threads on lever-action rifles:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/478234-more-lever-guns.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/979262-lever-action-folks.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1067741-lever-hand-spoon-questions-opinions.html

And I think you have to type his name three times before he shows up to provide sage advice...Higgins...Higgins...Higgins... :)

My opinion - A side-gate lever action rifle is much easier to reload while walking around...

Thank you for the links. I should have done my research. Professor Higgins has almost certainly already provided the info. I am reading now.

I have a Henry Golden Boy in .22lr ... tube loader is fine for that ... a no-go (for me) in larger calibers also. Still a VERY nice spoon. My Marlins (.30-30 &
.357) are side loaders... can't beat 'em :). The newer one isn't built like the one 4 decades old.... but what is these daze :D?

Melikes 'em all ....

Oddly enough my 10 year old whom I shoot with often has told me that he wants a Henry lever action for his birthday. Who am I to argue?

At a gun auction I handled a couple of Miroku lever guns. Beautifully made and the action was a smooth as silk.

New or used?

My son bought a Marlin 1894 in 30-30, a wonderful rifle. He hunts with it and I put maybe 5 rounds through it a year.

I have a Marlin 39 Carbine in .22, a fairly rare little gun that was given to me by my grandfather when I was 12.

If you are not planning on hunting with the lever action, a Marlin 39A is a hoot.

This one has side gate AND a tube

https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy-all-weather-side-gate/

https://www.henryusa.com/
[drop the mic]

My ears were burning...

Yeah, I played with those crude, clanky, rickety, inaccurate, outdated old things for a little while and just got sick and tired of them. Underpowered, inaccurate, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn if you were standing inside of it. Finally gave up and sold 'em all and bought a bunch of these new fangled black plastic rifles. The kinds that use batteries to power them into the 21st century and beyond.

But, well, I did learn a few things during all of those sad, misguided years I was playing with that rusty old junk. I guess I could share some of it, in the hopes that no one else has to suffer as I did.

So, pistol caliber lever guns? About as old as, well, lever guns - the very first ones were essentially "pistol calibers". The old .44 Henry rimfire, then the .44-40 WCF (Winchester Center Fire), then the .38-40, .32-20, etc. - all started out as "rifle" rounds, but were so darn short that they were easily chambered in revolvers as well. The Colt Peacemaker was the first, best known, and most common. They even stamped "Frontier Six Shooter" on the barrels of the .44-40's to emphasize that use - out on the "frontier", where ammunition commonality between rifle and pistol were a really big selling point.

Interestingly, the .45 Colt was never offered in a lever gun until fairly recently, like the end of the 20th century. There was a reason for that - the rim was too darn small on the original ammunition to allow it to extract reliably in a lever gun. The rim was subsequently enlarged, to where it is now the same size as that on the .44 magnum, so now it functions reliably through lever guns. And just about every pistol caliber lever gun made today is available in .45 Colt. My current example (that I'm still suffering with) is one of the first gen (1990's) Marlin Cowboy examples with a 24" barrel and full length magazine (that holds 13):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1615073100.jpg

This is a wonderfully accurate rifle that will handle any .45 Colt load, including my heaviest 300 grain "Ruger only" handloads. My Ruger single actions will get about 1,250 fps with them, and this rifle will approach 1,500. It is absolutely viable as a 150 yard-ish deer or hog rifle. I did have to modify the cartridge lifting ramp to accept my longer than SAAMI spec 300 grain load, but that was pretty easily accomplished. But, you know, even with SAAMI spec, "Colt safe" loads (250 to 270 grain bullets at 900 fps from a revolver), it will still hit 1,200 fps and remains entirely useful as that 150 yard-ish hunting rifle.

Unfortunately, like everything else "firearms" these days, I bet it's almost impossible to find a rifle like this. Lots of manufacturers make similar lever guns - Winchester Model 92, various Henrys, Uberti Model 73's and '92's, etc. Out of all of those, the Marlin 1894 in its various guises remains my favorite, followed by the Winchester Model 92. My only recommendation would be to stay away from the Model 73 - it has a notoriously weak toggle link style lockup and is not suitable for heavy loads. Other than that, find one, if you can - you'll learn to hate them as much as I do...

What about the Henry vs the Winnie 92?

I have no personal experience with anything made by Henry, so I will defer to those who do. They do get outstanding reviews from people within the industry whom I respect, and I have heard nothing but good things about them. I am not familiar with all of their models and variations. I understand some must be loaded through the front of the magazine tube, lacking a side loading gate, but I'm not sure which ones those might be, whether they are "pistol" or "rifle" caliber actions, or both. I very, very much prefer a side loading gate, so perhaps that's why they have not garnered my interest in the past. They are making a big deal about their newer rifles that do feature that side loading gate, so I think they understand how important it is to many of us.

I think my biggest "objection" (if I can even call it that) to the Henry is that it appears a blatant rip-off of the Marlin design. At least by all appearances it appears that way. Maybe there are internal differences - I don't know. I just don't like rewarding that kind of behavior, assuming that is what they really are. I know many don't feel that way, and Henry sure sells a lot of rifles, and they get good reviews.

Hm. Here is what I think I want:

Old west style. Shorter barrel.

Side loading and perhaps side discharge. I think this means there will be two windows on the right side of the gun above the front of the lever. The lower gate is for loading. AFAIK.

Side discharge is less important to me than side loading.

Ability to handle any .45 Colt round I want. Dr. Higgins said in an earlier thread that most of these guns will not gracefully handle the bigger .45 Cold loads. Not enough bullet spin, i think. A Japanese maker of Winchester made one that could manage these, but I wonder if this simply cannot be accomplished with the shorter barrel.

FWIW, where I come from these old lever action rifles were usually chambered in 30-30. For deer hunting in closed quarters. I suppose that is a thought, but the idea of a pistol and a long gun using the same round is delightful.....if it can do the same thing. Shoot a deer at 150 yards or so.