LOL at NY - Part II

[Por_sha911]

NYC Democratic officials release public safety tip sheet that urges merchants not to call police.

A public safety tip sheet urges merchants to give the person causing harm the chance to correct their behavior before calling the police

Two Democratic New York City leaders this week urged small business owners to try to deescalate situations instead of calling the police days before a man stabbed an on-duty EMS worker to death.

The public safety tip sheet tweeted by Queens Councilwoman Tiffany Caban and Zohran Kwame Mamdani, a member of the state assembly, urges merchants to dial 311, seek mental health services for people with mental illnesses, and engage in "community mediation" instead of calling authorities.

"Say `no’, `Stop"’, or `That is not Okay,'" the guide says

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-democratic-officials-release-public-safety-tip-sheet-urges-merchants-call-police

OK, please tell me this is a SNL skit or something from National Lampoon. No?

Lets get this straight, someone is stealing from your store or threatening bodily harm. You should firmly say "No!" This is not OK." and call 311.

[stevej37]

I don't know. I'm just glad that I live in an area that I never have to worry about it.

[astrochex]

Sounds like it came from Seinfeld.

[oldE]

Seriously? You wouldn't speak to the individual first and advise them you are watching their actions and continuing their behavior will result in consequences they might rather avoid?
Just go for your gun and blow them away?

Terms such as " scum, dirt bag and lowlife" put one into a mindset where we divide humanity into them and us.

Too many keyboard warriors, not enough community.

The breakdown of society is hard to watch.
Les

[osidak]

so people need to be told now that committing a crime is not ok now....

I thought we all learned that as children.... very young children.... I did, my son did, won't speak to my parents learning but they are the ones that taught me so probably.

[rfuerst911sc]

Stupidity and breaking the law has consequences. If you weren't taught that as a child shame on your parents . But ignorance of the law doesn't win you a pass . And sometimes that means you are on the receiving end of the barrel . But that was your choice .

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by oldE

Seriously? You wouldn't speak to the individual first and advise them you are watching their actions and continuing their behavior will result in consequences they might rather avoid?
Just go for your gun and blow them away?

Terms such as " scum, dirt bag and lowlife" put one into a mindset where we divide humanity into them and us.

Too many keyboard warriors, not enough community.

The breakdown of society is hard to watch.
Les

Us & them: when a person is stealing from me or trying to do bodily harm, the 'we' stuff has been invalidated.

I agree that de-escalation is desirable but, when you are being attacked then it is time to have law enforcement get into the picture.

I agree that there are too many "internet Rambos" who are big mouths but probably no real guts. I call them out on other forums and they are usually offended and double down with the "well what I'd do is..."

That said no where did I say that the victim should just blow them away! YOU have escalated this to something it was not. Calm down and join the conversation in its proper context. I do say that (as an example) a woman needs more than "this is not acceptable" when being attacked by a robber or a rapist and the info put out by the politicians is absolutely absurd!

[masraum]

I was curious what the actual bulletin says. I found it hard to believe that they would say "are you being beaten by a crazy bum, if so, you should hug them."

So I downloaded the bulletin. I think people are taking it out of context and warping it to be something that it's not because it's more exciting.

[KFC911]

^^^^ A molehill bigger than Everest .

RIF

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by oldE

Seriously? You wouldn't speak to the individual first and advise them you are watching their actions and continuing their behavior will result in consequences they might rather avoid?
Just go for your gun and blow them away?

Terms such as " scum, dirt bag and lowlife" put one into a mindset where we divide humanity into them and us.

Too many keyboard warriors, not enough community.

The breakdown of society is hard to watch.
Les

How about " STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!"

[KFC911]

Did anyone else actually read what Steve posted above?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by KC911

Did anyone else actually read what Steve posted above?

Yes.

[KFC911]

^^^^ Seems like reasonable suggestions for dealing with deescalating some situations. Didn't see any mention of criminal acts like stealing or making physical threats, etc. What did I miss?

Other than Fox news ?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ Seems like reasonable suggestions for dealing with deescalating some situations. Didn't see any mention of criminal acts like stealing or making physical threats, etc. What did I miss?

Other than Fox news ?

An escalating conflict is a dangerous situation. I don't think one can reasonably expect a shop keeper to get trained in de-escalation. Nor do I think an everyday person can effectively engage in de-escalation even with training.

What happened to police responding with someone skilled in such negotiations?

[hbueno]

Fox "News" excels at generating misinformed outrage.

[oldE]

Por_Sha911
I must apologize for my poor choice of words which must have lead you to believe I was referring to you.
I should have said,"Just go for one's gun and blow them away?"

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Best
Les

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by KC911

Did anyone else actually read what Steve posted above?

Yes. I read it before the thread was started. Did YOU read this part?



If the conflict appears to be be escalating... Someone is getting emotional, angry, or irrational. Telling them "no" or that they are wrong is not going to make them calm down. Delegate? LOL. Try asking a stranger in NYC to get involved is absurd. They won't even look at you no less acknowledge that you spoke to them. Spilling a soda? Really?

If you think these instructions are just for normal situations then please notice the Delay info. Check with the "survivor" and don't video the person being "harmed". This is an attack of some kind. All these things are a possibility in an office environment with people you already have a relationship with or a family gathering but in public these are worthless.

I am not trained in counseling nor should I be expected to do so. I expect the Police to maintain law and order.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by oldE

Por_Sha911
I must apologize for my poor choice of words which must have lead you to believe I was referring to you.
I should have said,"Just go for one's gun and blow them away?"

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Best
Les

Thank you. No problem.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^^ Seems like reasonable suggestions for dealing with deescalating some situations. Didn't see any mention of criminal acts like stealing or making physical threats, etc. What did I miss?

Read the Delay where they talk about a survivor being harmed. This would be an attack and not just a threat.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Read the Delay where they talk about a survivor being harmed. This would be an attack and not just a threat.

Most of the bulletin seems OK, and from a rational, reasonable point of view, it all makes sense if this is at the very beginning of an issue where you have one person starting to get agitated.

But yes, I had to read "Delay" where it said "survivor" 3-4 times to make sure that I was reading it right. Survivor seems like a very, VERY odd choice of words.

Then in "document" where they talk about "the person being harmed."

Except for those two things, this seems reasonable. If you have someone come into your shop and they start getting agitated, try to deescalate the situation.

But at some point (before I have to figure out if someone is a survivor or not) I'm going to call the police, and if I have the means and feel justified, act to protect myself and others from harm.