Pretty Cool Old Ironhead Sportster

[Jeff Higgins]

[David]

I love to see these performance oriented custom bikes vs the useless choppers.

I'm surprised it doesn't have a trick lightweight Jiffy Stand

[Zeke]

Is that the optimum riding position? I guess they know what they are doing but it looks funky.

[Chocaholic]

I think Ducati is safe.

[VINMAN]

Cue the typical Harley bashing in 3...2..1...

[Sooner or later]

Nice

[pwd72s]

"Makes a Ducati look like a girl's bike." Yep...

[Jeff Higgins]

Well, owning both a hot-rod Ironhead Sportster and an equally hot-rodded Ducati 900 SS, I would have to say - Ducati are safe.

In the end, this bike represents no more than an admittedly pretty darn cool effort to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It is what it is. And, yeah, it sure beats the hell out of the typical hard tail framed "custom" Sportster.

I think we need to view this thing in context. Put it up against any bike of its era, from say the late '50's through the early '70's - the heyday of the British twin - and Sportsters were actually pretty damn competitive. In my case, I ride with guys who ride various British twins from that era and, I'm here to tell you, my Sporty absolutely runs away from them. With embarrassing ease. Even in the twisties.

Where it is sorely lacking (and brought home rather resoundingly every time i ride the Duc) is in handling and braking. This bike addresses both. Granted, not in a "period correct" manner, but I think it's rather cool nonetheless.

One of my favorites, maybe one of my "someday" projects, is the old "Sporton", an Ironhead motor in a Featherbed frame. I've seen plenty of examples, so it's entirely do-able. Much more "period" as well. I think a Sporton with modern brakes would be the schizz... Still no match for the Duc, but it would make it all the easier to run and hide from my Triumph, Norton, and BSA mounted riding buddies...

[flatbutt]

Well just looking at it I'd say that the ride ergos look as uncomfortable as any stock Duc is, but the proof would be in the riding. That stripped down structure carrying a full bore S&S engine probably streaks down the road like a turpentined cat! Looks like it could be a badazz cafe' scoot for sure.

[rfuerst911sc]

Jeff Higgins your Sportster sounds neat but I am curious about your comments about handling vs the Duc . Totally serious questions what makes the Duc superior to the sportster ? Is it weight ? Wheelbase ? Fork angle ? The frame ? I always thought that if I ever was to get a Harley the only one that looks interesting to me is the sportster or a V-rod . While my riding days are probably over I still like to learn .

[greglepore]

Having had a Sporty and a number of Ducs, I'll jump in. Its's all of the above. Even a good sporty feels like a lawn chair compared to a Duc. Trail has a lot to do with it, as does weight, or where it is. The Sporty has vertical cyl's, the Duc has one laid down, so the cg is better. And Brembo's vs American brakes, and riding position, and and ... .
I have tons of respect for guys that ride sporty's hard and fast. The XR1200 was a good bike, but look at a photo of the lump that composes the drive unit next to a Monster 1000.

[rfuerst911sc]

Greg thanks for the reply , it all makes sense. I didn't think about COG .

[LJ851]

Pretty cool, the tail section is a little bit high for my tastes.

I still like mine better, it’s about 370lbs / 90+ HP at the wheel ready to ride.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Having had a Sporty and a number of Ducs, I'll jump in. Its's all of the above. Even a good sporty feels like a lawn chair compared to a Duc. Trail has a lot to do with it, as does weight, or where it is. The Sporty has vertical cyl's, the Duc has one laid down, so the cg is better. And Brembo's vs American brakes, and riding position, and and ... .
I have tons of respect for guys that ride sporty's hard and fast. The XR1200 was a good bike, but look at a photo of the lump that composes the drive unit next to a Monster 1000.

Spot on. My Sporty weighs about 480 pounds, with much of it up high in those "Iron Heads" (and cylinders). My Duc weighs 365 pounds and carries it quite a bit lower. This really, really becomes apparent when transitioning from right to left or left to right hand corners. You really feel that top heavy weight of the Sporty.

Wheelbases are about 60" and 56" respectively, as near as I can measure. Rake on the Sporty is 30 degrees, the Duc I believe is 25 degrees, so the steering is a good bit "lazier" on the Sporty. The Sporty has noodly 35mm traditional style forks, where the Duc has 41mm inverted forks, so the Sporty's front end wanders and flexes a good deal more, especially with its 120 pounds more heft. The swing arm on the Sporty is a simple horizontal tube of equally noodly proportions, with the shocks mounted about halfway down its length, leaving the back half to flex a good deal. The Duc has a very well triangulated, square box section aluminum tubing swingarm that simply doesn't flex. The difference in feel is remarkable - the Sporty wallows back and forth on its swingarm, where the Duc is very planted.

Then there is the tires. The Sporty rides on very skinny rubber, 4.00x18 rear and 3.25x19 front, where the Duc rides on modern sportbike rubber - 120/70-17 front and 170/60-17 rear. And the brakes - single disc with a single piston caliper in front, drum in back on the Sporty, with modern sport bike brakes on the Duc - twin piston Brembos front and rear, two in front and one in back.

And then there are the frames. While Ducati are proud of building just the "right" amount of flex into their famous ladder frames, the Duc is noticeably more rigid than the Sporty. The engine is a stressed member on the Duc, where it simply rides in the frame on the Sporty. The Sporty's steering head and swingarm pivot are far less well braced than those on the Duc (the Duc's swing arm actually pivots in the cases), leading to a good deal of flex in those areas.

The Duc has a far better power to weight ratio as well. One would think that a 1,000cc twin would make more power somewhere than a 900cc twin, but it just doesn't. More torque, maybe, but that gets lost in the additional weight. Horsepower is no contest whatsoever. And they have markedly different personalities - the Sporty has massive flywheels on a very under square bore/stroke ratio, where the Duc doesn't feel like it even has flywheels on a very over square configuration. The Duc is much snappier on the throttle, and has a red line fully 2,000 rpm higher (7,000 or so on the Sporty, although I do exceed that, what with my much improved valve train and rotating assembly, and 9,000 on the Duc, although it's seldom necessary to run it that high).

The long and the short of it is that the Duc just feels far more "precise" and "lively", where the Sporty "wallows" and feels relatively sluggish when pushed hard. I really feel the additional weight and flexing when pushing the Sporty. And the brakes are just so, so much better on the Duc.

Granted, there is an almost 20 year age difference. The newer Evo, especially the newer rubber mounted Evo Sportsters, are night and day ahead of mine. Much more rigid frames, much better brakes, more power, better forks and swingarms, etc. They do weigh significantly more, though, but I think in the end it's worth it. They are a far, far better motorcycle than my poor old Ironhead, no doubt about that. Far more reliable as well. Just not nearly the "personality" which, I readily acknowledge, is entirely subjective.

[Chocaholic]

The way I’ve heard it summarized is:

A Ducati and a Harley run over the exact same rock.

The Ducati rider said the rock was 1.8 cm wide with a 40 degree angle at the top right and it weighed 12 grams.

The Harley rider said....what rock?

[greglepore]

Of course, the beauty of the sporty is that it very rarely coaxes you to go fast enough to get in far enough over your head to do serious bodily harm (while maintaining an entertainment level that is sufficient), whereas the Duc does so regularly.
In fairness, my godawful wreck on a duc was due to hubris and what I've now learned was a very poor suspension setup. I'm 5'5 and the shop where I bought the 749 from dropped the rear enough to make me comfortable at lights, but as it turns out that makes a duc steer crazy slow, which I didn't really get until my current st, which is really uncomfortably high for me, but it turns in like nobody's business.

[varmint]

They already tried this. Handled like a dream. Couldn’t go 300 miles without a part falling off.

[greglepore]

Erik-eat mushrooms, design bike. But a pushrod rear suspension is so F1.

[sc_rufctr]

Cool bike but the chain looks really slack and it touches the swing arm when no one is sitting on it...
- Does it matter? Probably not but that seems "klugey". That and the swing arm seems really long.

Also, Japanese reverse front fork?

The coolest Harley ever: "Nick's" bike in the movie Black Rain.

[Bill Douglas]

To me, custom this and custom that means a whole lot of parts put together - that shouldn't really be together.

Plus when it goes wrong... You're on your own.