180 bucks a day, no skill, nothing

[look 171]

Milt, you are in the same or similar business. Would you pay that for a day laborer given my situation?

There's an market rate for everything and I just don't feel that's the correct rate. It has nothing to do with the person working hard or not or where they come from.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

SoCal Harbor Freight $16.85 hr. w/health benefits makes total cost over $20.00 per hr

Well, if I add in the insurance cost that would be 27 buck an hour. Really, would you pick up a couple of those guys at the Home Depots parking lots, pissing on the fence, hanging out running after you as you drive by at 27 bucks an hour to haul some tree limbs you cut up into a dumpster at your house for a couple days? You are in socal, and I know you have seem them before. Then there's the safety issue, because you never know their background and intention.

Lets say, We need two guys, two days, that's 864 bucks for hauling the tree limbs and leaves at your house. AS a contractor, I have to make money on top of that at 20-22%. Add in the dump fees, that's over 1500 bucks. That's just to haul trash. Most people will look elsewhere, that I know for sure.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

Haul it yourself for a few weeks, then determine what a good pay rate for breaking your back and busting your ass is.

Why would I do that? I make more doing something else they can't do. Its simple economic.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

About 15 yrs ago I could not get anyone to bid on replacing the vinyl siding on my townhouse and replacing some dry rotted wood underneath. Finally, there was someone with a table set up at Home Depot for such stuff. I think they said $3500. My then GF was from China and she found some Chinese laborers who only advertised in those newspapers always laying around the lobbies of Chinese restaurants. They wanted $1500, came right out and did an amazing job. I'm sure most were illegals, but damn, they did a great job.

Around here our Mexican landscaper is the go-to for all labor I don't want to DIY. He replaced our whole drip system for $500. Next best bid we got was for $3200 and Mrs. Lee was pissed when I tipped our guy $100. Sheesh. Next project is to find a house cleaning crew. I hope our landscaper's wife does this.

They have a skill and able to do the job with the right tools and don't have to be picked up and told and baby sit them. As much as I dislike people undercutting other, but I accept that completely and understand that their market is much narrower then most due to their language barrier. Good on them for working hard and getting the work from you.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

$22.00 per hr @ McDonald's in Copenhagen DK with lifetime free medical care, free college, child care too and there is NO such thing as personal BK. No wonder it's the happiest city in the world and they write songs about how lonely L.A. is...

There's talk about pushing min wage to 20 an hour. How many small to mid size business will close? They will run two part time shifts jsut to get away from paying medical to cut cost. These aint Amazon, so they must rely on saving as much as them can. In the mean time, rent goes up and so does everything else. Do you own your own business?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by speeder

Yep, it's called a free market and all of the sudden, these supposed free market capitalists don't seem to like it.

Tracers, and the free market, work both ways.

We are not talking big C capitalists, we are referencing business people and their cost structure, which translates into being price and performance competitive.

You see it in every industry - when the cost of labor and the headaches of relatively unskilled labor becomes problematic businesses invest in automation where applicable. The auto industry is a prime example.

In my case, I cannot compete with Mexico in composite manufacturing on commercial end items. I simply cannot match at the price point (and quality, btw) that comes out of factories south of San Diego.

Little to do with the Big C, rather regulations and federal mandates. I could write a book.

I worked in precision agriculture in Washington State for two summers building a UAS service provider company, which we sold.

I have written about this before. Labor used to be maybe 5th in the cost chain for the big tree and fruit "ranches" in the State, many billions of dollars in revenues.

Rightly, managing the use of migrant workers, protecting them, became a reasonable aim. It worked. The migrants went from sleeping in tents to really modern facilities and working for a fair wage.

Then they began to strike when the ranchers needed them the most: tree/fruit has a defined life span once it ripens. The workers had the advantage.

What are the ranchers doing? Investing heavily, with the State, in automation. One rancher told me we had 25% of his crops at risks due to strikes. If automation ruins 5% of his yield with no risk, it is worth the investment.

This back and forth has happened forever.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by look 171

You are getting this all wrong. There are day laborers he (my concrete guy) was talking about. They hang out on the sidewalk one day and gone the next.

I don't have it wrong. They show up somewhere, HD, sidewalk, any parking lot.

If they are overpaid find people who will do it for $15 per hour.

I'm still confused why it's a big deal. Either you are wrong, and $20/hr is the real going rate, or you found someone who is hoping you're too lazy to find cheaper labor.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by look 171

Still think that's worth over 20 buck an hour?

Is your trash still sitting there? If so, yes, that is the capitalism supply and demand rate. Don't like it, then demand for socialism.

[thor66]

don't forget that the low wage rate unskilled free market has been affect by 2 things:

immigrants & govt. covid support payments

is it still free?

I'm not arguing against the latter BTW

[look 171]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Is your trash still sitting there? If so, yes, that is the capitalism supply and demand rate. Don't like it, then demand for socialism.

Socialism can kiss my fat ass. Trash has been hauled away this morning by my trash guy. He gets paid well but pays his unskilled belabors 15, which is min wage to sweep up after what the skid loader can't pick up. I only wanted it gone so it looks good for the neighbors over the holiday weekend if its cause me two to three hundred bucks, but not close to a thousand and not getting out of my way jsut to clean it. Capitalism at its best if you ask me. I wouldn't have never hire an illegal on my job site. Can't and don't trust them due to the fact that I don't know who they are and I am bring them into someone, my client's properties. no thanks

[look 171]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I don't have it wrong. They show up somewhere, HD, sidewalk, any parking lot.

If they are overpaid find people who will do it for $15 per hour.

I'm still confused why it's a big deal. Either you are wrong, and $20/hr is the real going rate, or you found someone who is hoping you're too lazy to find cheaper labor.

Over 20 is what they demand. Most people in the business I know aren't willing to pay it and feels it is too much for the type of work they do. I pay a company to do this. Its more hourly, but they are legit, insured and I am done.

[Zeke]

There are a couple things to consider here. $20/hr is cheap when that's the only cost. Unfortunately it's not. Worker compensation rates vary by the trade, but any trade is 10x the cost of WC for an office worker. UI ins and SS cost a lot when you write the paycheck.

Actual direct costs range from 1.25 to 1.4 times the agreed pay rate. Indirect costs add more. And if you want to make a profit from labor performed using the fully burdened labor cost, you mark up from there. That's the number the customer sees (or doesn't see in a fixed price quote).

When it came to trash, I found a call to 1 800 GOT-JUNK was my cheapest option. And that cost came out of my overhead.

[Superman]

Yup. Supply and demand economics are beautiful when they benefit the owners and outrageous when they begin to favor the folks who actually do the work. Don't like food prices? They boycott food. Don't like labor rates? Don't hire. For a business, that means don't make money.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by thor66

don't forget that the low wage rate unskilled free market has been affect by 2 things:

immigrants & govt. covid support payments

.

Disagree. Affected by two things, yes:

1). Supply
2). Demand

[speeder]

Originally Posted by look 171

Over 20 is what they demand. Most people in the business I know aren't willing to pay it and feels it is too much for the type of work they do. I pay a company to do this. Its more hourly, but they are legit, insured and I am done.

So what's the problem?

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Superman

Disagree. Affected by two things, yes:

1). Supply
2). Demand

Just those two things, really.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by speeder

So what's the problem?

No problem, I left it and didn't do anything.

My Concrete guy didn't have the man power to do it and convinced me that the illegal's demand were way too high. He's pissed too.

I don't need it gone that weekend but I like it gone. It was taken out this morning with a Bobcat into the roll off. Easy, took them an hour or two. Cleaned up before I got there.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by look 171

My concrete contractor and I got talking about hauling trash out and cleaning out my job site. He said no one wants to do this work anymore not even the illegals. They all have jobs and are demanding 180 a day without skills. I was shocked. No skills, 180 a day??? At 5 days a week, that is 43k per year, and no tax. That's a lot of money for none skill bodies.

We need to learn from our history books again to import cheap from elsewhere around the world. 180 bucks. They can kiss my fat ass. I suppose they hear that everything has gone up too in this country.

I'm not sure I understand the issue here - seriously.

$43k in California is probably barely a living wage - if you had 5 days of work every week. ...and if you're an illegal you don't.

Their skill? Doing crap labor without complaining. Thats a skill I don't possess.

Whats your suggestion here. How will you solve this problem for yourself?

[chapo]

We pay our laborers $28.50 for pure labor, and $35.00 here in So Cal, we do not pay them direct. We also contract with their employer to haul our debris and trash. They supply most hand tools needed, as well as light power tools, chippers, etc. licensed, insured. Only way to go. No way are we hiring anyone off of the street. I have had the same two laborers on my projects for over 6 years now. They know what I want and what to alert me about. I tip them occasionally as well.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by cstreit

I'm not sure I understand the issue here - seriously.

$43k in California is probably barely a living wage - if you had 5 days of work every week. ...and if you're an illegal you don't.

Their skill? Doing crap labor without complaining. Thats a skill I don't possess.

Whats your suggestion here. How will you solve this problem for yourself?

You may be watching too many utube videos or movies. Many live off 43k a year. They don't all have to live in Santa Monica over looking the ocean and don't need to live in Hollywood hills. There are many apartments that are renting for 1000 bucks. Everyone drives an hour or more to work daily. You don't think they complain? Oh, I have seen them working for someone else, hanging around doing nothing milking it when their boss aren't there. I am not sure if they are legal or not, but I am sure they dislike their jobs and want a clean corner office making 120 per hour. Its not really my problem to solve. The only thing I am saying is that the going rate has gotten out of hand. Many agree with me.

43k a week? Starting teacher salary for LA is 53,000. How much is left after tax and union fees? Its pretty damn close to 43k. That's with a teaching credential. I can live 43k a year. And don't forget, many people do and they have pay taxes on top of that and mandatory auto insurance. The day laborer do not.

Again, my opinion is that that rate is too high. I hear there's some type of building nearby where they hang out coaching the day laborers to band together asking for a certain wage.

I got talking with a young men today installing solar on my job today. He's busting his ass on the roof carrying panels, drilling holes and pulling cables. I asked him on his water break about his pay. Yep, he's getting pay at 18.50 per hour. He's happy with a job where he can learn and move up, make more money. There's a problem if the illegals without skills are asking/making over 20 bucks while this hard working kid, assume he's an American, speaking without any accent is making less. But he saw the potential of knowledge and skill that will make him lots more.