COVID vaccines - good info sources?

[fanaudical]

I've got some history of allergies and have read too much about the various COVID vaccines - lots of conflicting info out there. I have a couple questions for the brain trust - can you please weigh in and cite your sources?

Between Pfizer and Moderna, which has the least probability of allergic reaction? (My research points toward Moderna, but not by much...)

Between Pfizer and Moderna, which has the least probability of side affects not related to allergic reaction? (Anecdotal info I find points to Pfizer...)

[red-beard]

Here is a good concise rundown.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

J & J is the vaccine available in the US that has not shown allergic reactions.

[Chocaholic]

Trust me...there are no experts here. Lots of opinion based on gossip. Hard to trust any sources at all regarding this virus or vaccines. We must proceed on faith.

There you go. The single most reliable answer you will receive.

[fanaudical]

Thanks, James and Mike.

Mike - I do believe you are right - but I keep holding the lantern and searching for "truth"...

[Mahler9th]

Pfizer & Moderna stop the spread!

Post #81 and post #82 have links that one might find informative.

Remember, the US CFR has strict requirements for these things and there are hundreds of gubmint employees, company employees, et cetera involved with adherence to these requirements.

I am not a physician but I have worked as a biz professional "in the medical space" for decades.

When my friends and family asks questions like those expressed by the OP, I suggest they start with their personal doctor-- the center of the fruit. Next outer layer is their provider, for example if I had coverage under Sutter Health, I'd see what they have to say. These are service providers that are "responsible" for YOU as their client.

Beyond those layers are what the manufacturers report from the clinical work they did to gain EUA (or as appropriate "licensure," aka "approval"). And of course the opportunity to canvass the FDA/CDC vigilance system in the case of vaccines.

Also included in those outside layers are resources like AMA-- places that physicians may reference for summary information.

Examples:

https://edhub.ama-assn.org/jn-learning/audio-player/18573793

Mass General Study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777417

This latter example can help folks realize that they are not alone with these types of questions.

In this case, the lead author is an "allergy doctor:" Division of Rheumatology, Allergy and Immunology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston

So again, I suggest starting at the center--- HCP(s) familiar with You and responsible for YOUR care, and working your way out.

In my case I usually don't need to do this often... that will likely change as I age.

[fanaudical]

Great advice and insight Mike. One of the reasons I posted this is that my PCP won't recommend one or the other - he's basically stating no difference. Maybe there is no difference and I'm just overthinking it...

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Trust me...there are no experts here. Lots of opinion based on gossip.

Not so. A couple of mates of mine. One drives a taxi and the other is a barber. Knows everything....

[Tobra]

First time I got a flu shot I was sick 3 days. Second/last time sick a week. Not allergic reaction, adverse reaction. So far have been unable to get an idea if this stuff would be the same or worse than a flu shot. Information is not easy to find, but saying there is no difference in various vaccines for this is wrong

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Information is not easy to find, but saying there is no difference in various vaccines for this is wrong

Which is exactly why I'm waiting a long, long time before I'd even come close to considering getting this vaccine...


.

[KFC911]

You are certainly part of the Covid virus in human's experiment... the vaccine is just a tangent.

I had never had a flu shot as an adult, nor any vaccine. I still have a rash from my 2nd shingles on Tue, and will "oink like a guinea pig" in another 10 daze

[island911]

If you are weighing the risks of the various vaccines, you may want to look at the demographic stats on the virus.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

For example:



Note ^that is not saying death FROM CV but rather is a reflection of death with CV (or suspected CV)

Now I know that the program insists that everyone freak the fk out about this virus, but flu's have been much more deadly, and people don't freak the fk out over getting an annual flu vaccine.

Heart disease, cancer... so many much more popular ways to die.

[Sooner or later]

You can use VAERS reporting to sort all reports from Covid vaccinations. Reporting can be skewed since some reports may not have anything to do with the vaccine. I found one report where a man committed suicide by stepping in front of a car. I would expect that the % of unrelated reports should be similar from vaccine to vaccine.

I did a quick compilation on Moderna, J&J Janssen, Pfizer BioNTech. Age 18 and over.

Pfizer
Total vaccinations 92,000,000
Deaths 997
Life threatening/ER vist/Hospitalization 9468

Moderna
Total vaccinations 81,000,000
Deaths 1145
LT/ER/Hospitalizations 7966

JJ
5,400,000
54
979
https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=183E423027BD8BBF6FDEA81E8CFF

I haven't been able to find the individual reports on the CDC Wonder page though they may be there somewhere. I have found individual reports through Medalerts.org.
https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/index.php

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by fanaudical

I've got some history of allergies and have read too much about the various COVID vaccines - lots of conflicting info out there. I have a couple questions for the brain trust - can you please weigh in and cite your sources?

Between Pfizer and Moderna, which has the least probability of allergic reaction? (My research points toward Moderna, but not by much...)

Between Pfizer and Moderna, which has the least probability of side affects not related to allergic reaction? (Anecdotal info I find points to Pfizer...)

Since it all turned political, I don't know that there really is a reliable source. Pretty sad, isn't it?

[VillaRicaGA911]

For what it is worth, I am now the 7th member of very immediate family to get the Pfizer 4 members have had both rounds now of anywhere from 90 days (wife who works in a large local Atlanta area hospital) down to myself being 2 days post round one of of the Phizer vac. Most everyone in the department of the hospital where my wife works all are about 90 days post both rounds of Pfizer. So far the only effect I can say for sure is no one we know who has had both rounds of vaccine has come down with a case of COVID. (And my wife has been tested 3 times prior to vaccine as well as her work at the hospital has here in very close proximity to patients 4 days a week). I know of only one lab confirmed case involving a patient who was post both rounds of vaccine who contracted COVID which is a slight chance according to the vaccine manufacturers can happen. The only other consideration I will add is a conversation I had with an interventional pulmonologist who had treated various COVID patients in his words - get the vaccine, I have treated and watched people die of COVID it is not the way you want to go out - this is coming from a man who routinely diagnose and and help plans treatment for people with lung cancer......

[aldente]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Here is a good concise rundown.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

J & J is the vaccine available in the US that has not shown allergic reactions.

Thx for that expert and reliable source.

[Mahler9th]

I posted this in another thread. I posted a link to that thread in this one.

For those interested in covid vaccine reactogenicity...

from CDC web site based upon data from trials supporting EUA:

Local Reactions, Systemic Reactions, Adverse Events, and Serious Adverse Events: Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/moderna/reactogenicity.html


Local Reactions, Systemic Reactions, Adverse Events, and Serious Adverse Events: Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html

Some things to note:

This data comes from trials and subsequently from the FDA briefing sheets, and there are links to these at both sites.

Everything is based on subject (patient) reporting. Information on the specifics of trial forms, instructions and procedures for collection of these data and for reducing the pools into useful information is ilkely in the public domain.

Comparisosn are between vaxed and placebo (placebo control). Also remember these studies were blinded.

Tables 3 and 4 provide systemic reaction information (64 and under and 65+). Note the sizes of the data sets.

[Mahler9th]

Infiormation is out there. Transparency is required by law.

This is all highly regulated and there are thousands of people involved.

I have a close friend that is a vaccine industry insider... part of a couple that are both insiders. They know all the players in industry and in gubmint.

There are thousands of people working on this vaccine stuff. In industry and gubmint.

Remember: the EUA's had supporting data sets from trials. The numbers of people vaccinated with the authorized vaccines far exceeds the numbers used to make the EUA decisions. Simply put, all of the players have even far more date to look for issues, trends, patterns et cetera.

The are required to do so by laws. And as has been pointed out in this thread, you can access information in the public domain... slice and dice however you want.

[Chocaholic]

I think most that are apprehensive about the jab are less concerned about reactions than possible long term effects. That’s the part that no one seems willing to discuss.

[Mahler9th]

Not sure what this means...

"..no one seems willing to discuss."

Not sure what one would expect.

Some perspective from CHOP.

https://www.chop.edu/news/long-term-side-effects-covid-19-vaccine

There are two aspects of "long term" that I think about.

One is the growth of statistical power. More people can lead to bigger numbers can create higher statistical power.

The other is time. For example, the question: "What could happen, say 10 years down the line with a human body's reaction to a Pfizer vaccine shot which that body received today, everything else being equal?"

Of course EUA and licensure (approval) are about safety and efficacy.

And on the other side we have this bad boy virus.

Let's say that studies show 25% of those people that have had Covid 19 disease requiring hospitalization have changes to brain tissues that are extremely untoward and 100% detectable.

Let's say that in this hypothetical, untoward means that life expectancy is reduced by an average of 9 months, all else equal. We know for sure--- we see those kinds of tissue changes (for example in pathology or in MRI or whatever) and the mean shortening of life is is 9 months.

Is it this simple?

No, I don't think so.

We have a lot to learn. We need both time and numbers. We need processes, protocols and systems. Cooperation and trust. Regulations. We need a lot of things. We have a lot of things.

Time will tell.

Then there is social media.

[Sooner or later]

Also, there have been mRNA clinical trials since at least 2017. Total numbers within these trials have been small, but to date there have been no known long term problems associated with mRNA vaccines. The Covid19 vaccines have been the first to be really successful at being an effective treatment.

Moderna has 23 mRNA studies in pre or various stages.
https://trials.modernatx.com/

This is the Moderna mRNA trial started Nov 2017.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03382405
Jan 2017
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03014089


BioNTech has 20 mRNA studies in pre or various stages.
https://biontech.de/science/pipeline