Baloney.

Just learn right from wrong, and don't make bad decisions. Certainly drugs are a major cause of the prison population. If people decided NOT to take that first hit of crack or meth there would be no addicts. That first hit is a bad decision and the start of the path to being homeless or in prison.

Simply buying illicit drugs of any sort is the reason there is a long list of people willing to break the laws to sell the drugs. No laws will ever change the demand, but the decision to take drugs is the root of most of the prison population. If all prisoners told the truth, I bet very few as in virtually none, have never used illicit drugs, or over used legal drugs like alcohol. Alcohol is certainly a gateway drug to the illicit stuff.

I'm a proponent of private prisons. Unfortunately the ones we have now are run just like government prisons and that doesn't solve any problems.
Remuneration to private prisons should be paid on the basis of recidivism. If your recidivism rate is 80% you should get paid X per inmate. Get the 5 year recidivism rate down to 50% you get X+20%. This would give private prisons a greater incentive to release inmates who are educated, trained, reprogrammed - whatever the hell it takes to keep them from committing more crimes on the citizenry. Government run prisons just warehouse inmates until they set them free to prey on the public again. It's a stupid waste of money.

"Right from wrong," in the context of law is simply what the government deems allowable and what it has determined is punishable by prison. So we are free to act in a way that is permitted by the government or get thrown in prison. That's not freedom.

Really?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1625755092.jpg

The caricatures in this are of people who claim to push their agendas for the sake of humanity and society yet somehow have become very wealthy in the process.

The legal system and Constitutional Righrs are are the primary things that make the USA different from other countries. I think the incarceration rate reflects that.

This is of course changing across the country. If you want to know which direction look to the West. Property crimes are essentially no longer enforced, no bail for a lot of stuff and they let a ton of criminals out of prison, so the incarceration rate is fixing to drop

Patrick, you are being ridiculous

Yes, our prisons are loaded with nice, rational people who otherwise got framed.

Seriously, fine with me. Build more prisons for all I care. We have too much leniency as far as I'm concerned. Sick and tired of everyone blaming 'the system!'

- whatever the hell that means.

rjp

Rehabilitation is a recent fad in modern prison history. An idea from the French as I recall. We should return to yesteryear and incarcerate all criminals to mandatory sentences befitting the crime. What worked once can work again....

Foreigners who believe our media are really led to some crazy conclusions.

I remember one idiot Londoner I encountered (friend of a friend) who insisted we were running internment camps on our borders to MX.

LOL- what kind of 'internment camp' gives you medical treatment and food and then releases you a few days later?

Makes me doubt the future of this planet...

rjp

cant really keep this out of parf, but the reason for americas incarceration rate mostly has to do with two things:

1. the school to prison pipeline, the war on drugs etc.
2. the broken windows crime fighting fallacy.

Only violent people should be incarcerated. There has to be a better alternative for others.

OK, so just what do we do with burglars, car thieves, unarmed bank robbers, and computer criminals that steal your identity and rack up tens of thousands of dollars on your credit?

Personally I would put them all in a prison like Sheriff Joe in Arizona did. All wearing pink, no other clothing allowed, baloney sandwiches every singe lunch meal for the entire sentence. Outside with just tents to sleep in, no AC and a full blown cell phone blocking signal to eliminate any possibility of a cell phone call.

And serve the full sentence no early release.

Constant and pervasive video surveillance, and any violation of the rules or violence of any sort gets you shipped to the real prison.

I think this is one aspect of the issue. We have more freedom than some countries and if you look as some of the others (say Singapore), if you were seen spitting out gum on the street, the police would publicly beat you. The population knows this and so they behave. How does Saudi Arabia keep their crime down?

Other reasons:

Our Wealth. Turn on the TV and you can see shows that are dedicated to showing off wealth. This has got to have an effect on someone who has very little and doesn't see a way to get stuff without doing a crime. How many times do you hear the salaries of actors, CEO's, sports players, etc..? There was a time when it was rude to discuss your pay with others.

Our Laws. Maybe we have laws that other countries don't or don't enforce. I know that I personally feel safe knowing that many criminals get put away. I don't think I would feel the same if I were to take a road trip thru Mexico because I know that there's a strong chance I would get killed.

Our Leaders. Seems like our political environment focuses on "smearing" the other side vs. solving problems. Even problem solving seems to turn into a never-ending debate on how the other side is wrong and so nothing gets settled.

Our lack of term limits. With politics being a long-term career, the focus is on getting re-elected vs implementing solutions.

Our open borders. Where I live, I see gang members on a daily basis and there are constant news stories on new gangs moving into the area and killing off the existing gangs. Most are from the south - show me some graffiti in English and maybe I'd see this differently.

Drugs. Spend a week in California and observe the homeless situation. I probably see 25 homeless tents per day and that's just on my commute. Most of these people have become addicts and resort to robberies to feed their habits.

School Uniforms (or lack of). When I grew up I had to wear uniforms and all of the kids were equal. Now days, we've got competition for wealth at a very young age (just gotta have those Jordans). We also have a total lack of discipline in our schools. I had 40 kids in my classes (kindergarten thru 8th grade). Today, a teacher has trouble controlling 20 kids and that's with an aid helping. We used to teach our kids how to behave but today, anything goes.

The Internet. Although I don't think I could do without it, it is definitely contributing to societies downfall. Where else can you get upset about things that didn't bug you until you clicked on it. Seems like everyone is fighting with everyone. Negative news is constant and frequently not accurate.

The list could go on and on.

Totally agree. The recent news story of the guy in San Francisco drug store, filling a black garbage bag with stuff and then riding off on his bike......The recent news story of the gang of thieves doing a major grab-and-run at Nieman Marcus...

It the two cases I've listed, I would not put them in jail. BUT, I would cut their hands off. Euthanasia would also work well for repeat offenders.

NGL. Didn't see that one coming.

The gentleman from Flanders has it nailed. The machine must be fed. Jobs are depending on it!

"Vast majority" in the U.S. are Caucasian? :confused:

Within 20 years or so, white people will officially be a minority in the USA, as in less than 50%.

Since this is OT, I'll not point it out directly.
But look at a graph of per capita incarceration over the last several decades.
You'll see a signicant upward trend arrive at a certain period in time.
Certain ideas also gained power during that certain period in time.
Ideas that shifted power away from an existing set of structures.
A faux argument being made made now, and then, is an axis for this idea's popularity.
To detail that argument, or the structures, would be better done if this thread were moved to a less restricted section of the forum.

Slightly too many things are crimes.

Mostly too many boys growing up without fathers.

no other country has a state called "Florida"

The sentences are too long !