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Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 11385156)

1 Because you cannot win a war on drugs, repression of something in high demand will only serve to make it more profitable and as profitability goes up, so does the incentive to smuggle and the corruption goes up with it.

Portugal had a drug endemic, when they came out of their dictatorship...and it remained problematic till they decided to change it up and stop treating users as criminals but as patients..
The right wing balked at the idea , but when it was implemented , Portugal got it it under control, drug usage dropped, they have low Overdose death rates and drug related crime.
They have had several right wing governments since, but none of them even thought about overturning the socialist idea of helping the addicts instead of repressing and jailing them. That should tell you something.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

It does not work to work on the supply side if there's an endless demand.
Low Supply/ High Demand = High profit

Clearly the only way to deal with it, is to work on reducing the demand.

Listing drug busts in a monetary value also doesn't help, because it simply advertises "hey, this is good business"
The drug lords giggle a bit when they hear so much value was destroyed. because to them it means the stuff that DID get through became more valuable.

If anything the supply that got busted should be tested, certified, and sold for cheap on the street instead.
Now THAT would piss off the cartels big style
They would send their hitman over the border to shoot your politicians, and that's the obvious reason nobody does it.

2 If you make the incarceration a profitable business, then that as well opens up the way to corruption because well, those who make profit see no benefit in fixing the problem.
And obviously nobody has figured out to make a buck off social work, else that would be a way to fix the problem, but plenty people are making profit off incarceration, either through running the prisons or by providing related services.

Clearly that's part of the problem, because where you have profit, you will have lobbyists to sway politicians in sustaining that business.
I'm sure if the incarceration biz stands to be wiped out due to a change in policy.. the Capitalists behind it would probably help the Sicario's sent by the Cartel to help em schwack the politicians responsible

They both have a vested interest in keeping things running as they are.

I'm sure they,Cartel bosses and prison bosses a like, all vacation in the same resorts over in Europe, hang out with the Oligarchs and other big money scum

1&2 : Get the profit out of the equation and it goes away.

That describes the hard drugs - coke, heroin, etc. And to some degree pot running in the late 60s and on.

But a lot of the anti drug laws (and gun control laws while we are at it) were put in place to control those who used them - the poor, the blacks, and other minorities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 11385156)

Portugal had a drug endemic, when they came out of their dictatorship...and it remained problematic till they decided to change it up and stop treating users as criminals but as patients..
The right wing balked at the idea , but when it was implemented , Portugal got it it under control, drug usage dropped, they have low Overdose death rates and drug related crime.
They have had several right wing governments since, but none of them even thought about overturning the socialist idea of helping the addicts instead of repressing and jailing them. That should tell you something.

Yep. As I said, we don't have a huge prison population because we have too much freedom, it's (partially) because we have too little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantilla (Post 11385162)

In France, almost everybody is French.

Clearly you know nothing about France.

Quote:

Originally Posted by id10t (Post 11385917)

Same discussion
Those anti drug laws repress supply at the end stage of the distribution stage
But the demand remains exactly the same

As long as that demand remains
The potential for profit remains
And where potential for profit exists the supply chain will materialize.

America is THE place for capitalism.. surely y'all can understand simple supply and demand mechanisms?

IF somebody wants to buy it
THEN somebody will find a way to sell it

What better way for somebody to make a buck in a minority group, of poor upbringing, then supply something high demand with high profit margins??????

So knocking down the supply side hasn't worked before
doesn't work now
Won't work tomorrow either.

And clearly arresting everybody for possession or using drugs doesn't work either.
Drug users are beaten up from two sides.. by the drugs, by their own government.

How long before somebody figures out that arresting people is not a solution to a problem of socio-economic nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 11386224)

...
How long before somebody figures out that arresting people is not a solution to a problem of socio-economic nature.

Your posts have been spot on in this thread. This is no big secret, and lots of folks have figured it out. Unfortunately, we're not the ones putting the $$$ in our pockets (on the enforcement side) or trying to get elected (again).

Follow the $$$...

Quote:

Originally Posted by id10t (Post 11385917)

That describes the hard drugs - coke, heroin, etc.

Cocaine?

Cocaine is a hard drug but people will not normally steal from you to get money for it.

It's not as strong an addiction pull as heroin or fentanyl.

Lawyers and politicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 11386224)

And clearly arresting everybody for possession or using drugs doesn't work either.
Drug users are beaten up from two sides.. by the drugs, by their own government.

How long before somebody figures out that arresting people is not a solution to a problem of socio-economic nature.

It’s not just drugs. We imprison people for being mentally ill. If a schizophrenic commits a crime he doesn’t go into the health care system, he goes into the criminal justice system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by svandamme (Post 11386220)

Clearly you know nothing about France.

Correct!
I took two years of French in high school, but I didn't learn the language as much as I learned how to get an "A" from Mrs. Nightengale.

Study vs. Schmooze. Schmooze won.

criminals are NOT deterred by our courts, laws or jails.

kick ‘em while they’re down. it’s the American way.
the profit motive sweetens the deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 11386296)

It’s not just drugs. We imprison people for being mentally ill. If a schizophrenic commits a crime he doesn’t go into the health care system, he goes into the criminal justice system.

We certainly need to figure out some solution to mental illness. No sane person wants to be homeless. Certainly there are some homeless that are there because of bad luck and bad decisions in life. Lots more because they are just nucking futs.

There is no real long term funny farms anymore. They were all closed and now the crazy people just go fee.

I honestly have no answer as to what is the best option. It will for sure take a lot of money, and every big federal program is just a boondoggle and poorly run waste of money. Look at the VA, trying to treat veterans that truly deserve treatment for their service. When vets have to wait for over a year to see a doctor, it is just pitiful. Look at Medicare and Medicaid, total fudge cluster of wasted money.

I am on Medicare now and pay my bill electronically. They send me a paper bill that is several pages, and then even in Chinese, Spanish, and who know how many other languages. It can't hard to put a field on my bill that I only speak English and don't waste the paper and postage for multi language instructions. Never gonna happen. Billions of pages of paper get sold to them from some supplier that want to increase the printing. Or better yet, send it via secure email link.

Would anyone here want a halfway house in the neighborhood or a big jail nearby? Of course not.

People like that disrupt society, why they aren't out there.

rjp

The generation raised taken away from their localized disciplinary structures correspond to an increased rate of incarceration as they came of age.

Is it just coincidence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by creaturecat (Post 11386523)

kick ‘em while they’re down. it’s the American way.
the profit motive sweetens the deal.

You're more than welcome to donate your time and energy helping 'em.

Go for it.

rjp

Poor parenting

Or

Lack of parenting

In addition to lax punishment for offenders

Especially repeat offenders

crime has been dropping at an extraordinary rate for a generation, but if you read the **** in here ...

by almost every metric recordable, crime is down by HALF since the 1990s.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/20/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

why are incarcerations going up at a crazy rate while crimes is actually going down at an even crazier rate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockerpunk (Post 11386659)

Is your real name Fox Butterfield?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervuren (Post 11386566)

The generation raised taken away from their localized disciplinary structures correspond to an increased rate of incarceration as they came of age.

Is it just coincidence?

In my experience, there is no such thing as a coincidence

Just look at the Florida Woman thread, bout sums it up…