Leonard Susskind - Why Black Holes are Astonishing

[sc_rufctr]

The best I've seen on the subject... Enjoy

[charlesbahn]

Black holes are mind boggling; watching the progress of trying to understand them has been interesting- reminds me of the blind men and the elephant parable. Or better yet, the Mayan culture. A long time ago I studied anthropology and the Mayans. At that time, we could not read the glyphs, and much of the research were guesses as to what they said. But then the glyphs were deciphered, and the entire field of study changed overnight- we could read their history, and most of what we thought we knew was wrong. Such a breakthrough will probably come along at some point for black holes.

For me, reconciling quantum physics (of the microscopic) with the physics of the "heavy" (large/relativity) isn't conceptually a problem. I believe quantum laws apply to the universe as an enormously large object, our perspective is just too small to appreciate it. Wish I could do the math to figure it out.

Charles

[techman1]

Why is there the statement that “nothing is ever lost” regarding the chicken and duck analogy he made.

I think the black hole and singularity can be thought of like a hard drive.
If you save data to it “ the duck and chicken” information.
If the drive is reformatted back to its random 1 and 0’s.
The information has been reduced to its basic building blocks.
I think that is what happens to his duck and chicken. It is reduced to the most basic building blocks.
What that actually is we don’t understand or have the ability to measure.

[Fast Freddy 944]

I liked the Disney film The Black Hole much better, its more interesting!

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by techman1

Why is there the statement that “nothing is ever lost” regarding the chicken and duck analogy he made.

I think the black hole and singularity can be thought of like a hard drive.
If you save data to it “ the duck and chicken” information.
If the drive is reformatted back to its random 1 and 0’s.
The information has been reduced to its basic building blocks.
I think that is what happens to his duck and chicken. It is reduced to the most basic building blocks.
What that actually is we don’t understand or have the ability to measure.

It’s interesting that you relate to black holes by virtue of digitation and computation, they probably being the newest and the most profound human advancement so far.

I agree. I think black holes will come to be described in a completely new way just as incomprehensible to us as digitization would be to Benjamin Franklin.

I give it 20 years. At most.

[pmax]

Forget the Disney crap, Lister might be on the right track when it was implied, don't know for sure perhaps the computer did, that black holes are simply the boundary between normal space and the -1 or 2(?)-dimensional. Hmmm, gravity and of course time itself might well be an artifact of the 3rd now that I ponder it a tad. But once monogamy of entanglement comes into the discussion, all is lost.

[Chocaholic]

Recently read an interesting book about biocentrism. The role of consciousness in the universe. Much understanding hinges on the threshold between the quantum world and the Newtonian world. Interestingly, viruses are playing a (research) role in bringing quantum physics to the larger world.

Remember, space and time don’t exist in the quantum world as we understand them. I’m convinced that we will remain technologically infantile until we are able to cross that threshold. All of a sudden, the unfathomable distances in the cosmos go away along with the immense time that we perceive as necessary to visit other galaxies.

Quantum theory holds a pathway necessary to transcend almost every physical limitation that we have today. Just as an electron changes energy levels in a complete absence of time and space (yep)...our ability to master the universe would be equally simple. Don’t believe me? Do some reading on “quantum entanglement” and report back.

But alas...we need more Einstein’s, more technology and probably a few thousand years to figure it out.

Sorry fellas...we were born too soon.

[Pazuzu]

Biting tongue...


Black holes are actually one of the simplest things in the Universe to understand right now. They are literally basic laws of physics laid bare. We began studying them with the expectation that they would be hideously complex, and each experiment shows that they are incredibly simple objects. They are the 1x1 Lego block.

What's in your grandma's stew? Stuff. How much stuff? Just enough stuff. What kind of stuff? The right kind of stuff. How mixed up is the stuff? Totally mixed up.

Black holes are totally mixed up blends of just the right type and amount of stuff to exist.

[Pazuzu]

I will say that it is a good event horizon cartoon that he describes.

[Chocaholic]

Simple? Just a bunch of stuff? What about that whole gravity thing? You know, where it’s so strong that light can’t escape? What about the manifestation of quantum theory in the visible world? The “simple” elimination of space and time?

No, not simple...we have lots to learn.

Respectfully, of course.

[charlesbahn]

According to string theory, the current leading hypothesis for a "theory of everything" that combines quantum physics and gravity, the Universe before the Big Bang began with 10 dimensions which decreased to 4 after the Big Bang (M Kaku, "The God Equation").

No, definitely not simple.

Charles

[Chocaholic]

Many disagree with Kaku and claim string theory has been debunked. And that whole Big Bang theory…about as unlikely as the Easter bunny.

[Bob Kontak]

I like it when they talk to us laymen.

From what I have picked up, you really don't understand or appreciate any of this business until you can do the math that supports it.

[Chocaholic]

Speaking of the math...Einstein spent much of his life trying to come up with a unified theory to combine quantum physics and electromagnetism. A simple formula that explained essentially everything. He never did it. Requires verification but I remember reading that years later a relatively simple equation was discovered. But it required going out to something like 11 dimensions. Of course, we have no idea what those dimensions are...just another indication of how much we don’t know.

[pmax]

Don't underestimate yourself BK , it was the other way around for even Einstein, he figured it out first and then worked on the math, and needed help, lots of it, on the latter from a fella called Marcel Grossmann.

[doug_porsche]

Dr Becky. Your friendly neighborhood astrophysicist.

its her specialty,

https://www.youtube.com/c/DrBecky/

she has many videos on black holes.

Oh, and she mighty be cute as a button also!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by charlesbahn

According to string theory, the current leading hypothesis for a "theory of everything" that combines quantum physics and gravity, the Universe before the Big Bang began with 10 dimensions which decreased to 4 after the Big Bang (M Kaku, "The God Equation").

No, definitely not simple.

Charles

I'm reading The God Equation now and will be studying String Theory more mostly because I don't like the idea of vibrations, they lose energy quickly vs rotation. I was thinking last night that a spinning camshaft looks a little like vibration. And nature is full of spinning things, vibrations not so much. Can't wait to actually learn more about it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Biting tongue...


Black holes are actually one of the simplest things in the Universe to understand right now. They are literally basic laws of physics laid bare. We began studying them with the expectation that they would be hideously complex, and each experiment shows that they are incredibly simple objects. They are the 1x1 Lego block.

What's in your grandma's stew? Stuff. How much stuff? Just enough stuff. What kind of stuff? The right kind of stuff. How mixed up is the stuff? Totally mixed up.

Black holes are totally mixed up blends of just the right type and amount of stuff to exist.

Sorry but I think that’s a blatantly wrong generalization. Fully understanding quantum physics will ultimately represent either an entirely new set of rules or at a minimum supplementary equations to Newton that governs most modern physics. It will be a step change in our understanding of the universe.

[Pazuzu]

Er...black holes are actually proving to be mathematically simple objects. The entropy is directly related to the surface area. The mass is directly related to a few basic parameters. The spin turns out to be simple, the electro-magnetic field can be described fully in 2 or 3 lines of equations. You don't need quantum mechanics, you barely need calculus to calculate the orbit of an electron around a spinning black hole. I know this because I have calculated the orbit of an electron around a spinning black hole.

They are, in a mathematical sense, like a pure geometric form. Very simple, follows very strict rules, and the parameter space which they can exist is very well defined. Yes, General Relativity is very complex and difficult, just as true Geometric theory, but a circle, a *very specific item within it* is simple. Black Holes are proving to be circles within GR.

The fact that he can so very well describe one in terms of a lake and polywogs tells you that, at the heart of it, they are not complex entities.


Quantum Mechanics is a linear set of equations. Linear equations can only form other linear equations. All of QM is linear equations.

General Relativity is a set of non-linear equations. Non-linear equations can form other non-linear equations, or they can collapse into linear equations, under certain initial or boundary conditions.

QM and GR cannot exist in the same mathematical solution. One or both of them is wrong.

[pmax]

GR says everything that goes in doesn't get out. But QM says something does get out but in a way AFATY which doesn't say anything about what went in and that violates QM itself.