Wasted energy vs renewable energy

[dennis in se pa]

Renewable energy . We would not have to renew so much energy if we did not waste it on vanity displays such as fancy light displays and waterfalls etc. Think of how much energy is wasted in Las Vegas! Wasted on waterfalls "that look nice" in corporate lobbies. Fancy light displays that do nothing. Lights on at schools and factories that are not "security necessary".
Many of my generation were raised by "depression baby parents". We were taught to turn off the lights when you leave a room.
Maybe an effort to make our processes more efficient, and stop wasting energy would solve half of this problem.
When you leave the office - turn off the lights.
When you leave the coal mine shaft - turn off the lights.
I am not hearing much of an effort/discussion in this direction.

[cabmandone]

We have a Ford dealership that looks like a small city at night. Literally, you can see the lights in the sky at night.... but they're efficient LED's! You're right that we should be doing more to conserve energy.

[David]

I agree that we shouldn’t be wasting energy but I don’t think mandates to limit usage is the way to go. I think economics will drive the change.

As long as electricity is cheap, people will waste it but as the cost goes up due to natural gas cost increases and environmental requirements on emissions people will look for ways to cut usage.

Our shop’s monthly electric bill is about $20k so electricity usage savings add up quick. 5 years ago we spent $120k to replace the high bay fluorescent lights with LED. The savings is about $50k a year!

[oldE]

You're right, Dennis. If you don't consume it, you don't need to replace it.
We have become a culture of conspicuous consumption, from our houses which are too big, to our vehicles (ditto), to our diets and clothing. We don't need half of the crap we buy and then we have to find a way to dispose of it.
Our parents, who lived through the great depression have got to be shaking their heads .

Best
Les

[masraum]

Yep, I griped at the kids for years when they were at home, "turn off the lights," "stop turning the AC down," "don't leave the door open," etc....

I used to leave near downtown Houston. We could see the Houston skyline from our apt. Buildings that were lit like Christmas trees, 24x7x365.

And, of course, light pollution. I'm into astronomy, and you can barely see stars near Houston because of all of the lights.

I've heard that there are places that dim the street lights in a couple of levels thoughout the night getting dimmer when it's late and there are fewer folks out and about.

I wonder what the impact has been for a city like Houston that switched from Sodium or Mercury vapor lamps to LEDs for streetlights. I would think that would be pretty considerable.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by masraum

I wonder what the impact has been for a city like Houston that switched from Sodium or Mercury vapor lamps to LEDs for streetlights. I would think that would be pretty considerable.

Originally Posted by David

Our shop’s monthly electric bill is about $20k so electricity usage savings add up quick. 5 years ago we spent $120k to replace the high bay fluorescent lights with LED. The savings is about $50k a year!

Thanks for the data point, David. Wow, and that was flourescent to LED, and resulted in a 20% decrease. That's impressive. I didn't think LED was that much more efficient than flourescent.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by cabmando

We have a Ford dealership that looks like a small city at night. Literally, you can see the lights in the sky at night.... but they're efficient LED's! You're right that we should be doing more to conserve energy.

Depending on the neighborhood the dealer should be well lit.
My parent's had their vehichle at a Ford dealer and it was one of many that got jacked and the wheels taken off.
Better lighting would have helped.

One thing I would recommend if you want to teach about being energy effecient in someone's life is to take them somewhere that has an exercise machine hooked up to power lightbulbs.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

..........I am not hearing much of an effort/discussion in this direction.

It's like telling people to get a tune up for their car to save gas or to put air in their tires to improve fuel mileage and or increase their very own safety.

Very few will hear the call (selective hearing), fewer yet shall respond and do something.

In the example David provided, someone had to spend money in order to save money, this can often be a hard sell. Most of our client are already sold or interested in renewable, they are just seeking to optimize with us.

I'm working for a renewable energy consultant firm (engineering/installation/maintenance) in Michigan now, they order and buy PV panels for their clients so their clients can to finance the project as a single bill.

Making things easy is what it's all about - it's about convenience. This is why lights and faucets turn themselves on and off automatically these days.

Something so simple apparently is inconvenient.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yep, I griped at the kids for years when they were at home, "turn off the lights," "stop turning the AC down," "don't leave the door open," etc.............

Photometric and motion detection lights, smart programmable thermostats, and self closing doors.

All the above have replace active human participation and are automated.

Automation has replaced lazy human habits, my favorite is self flush toilets and self flushing urinals should I have to go into a public facility.

People are animals and often act like it.

In the top running is headlights that turn themself on, fewer people drving around without their lights on.

[GH85Carrera]

We have a koi pond and 5 koi to eat the alga that grows. The pump runs 24/7/365 to pump the water to the top of the waterfall and aerate the water.



Every year the toads have an orgy and we have eleventy zillion tadpoles the fish eat, but dozens of toads prove Darwin's theory and survive. That photo is just a part of the population.

The pond also has attracted an entire heard of skinks that we never had before. We have a little tiny brown snake that eats earthworms. Tons of birds land and get a drink from the pond. The bees and butterflies are always thick as are the dragon flies.

It is a little ecological paradise, and all because we use some electricity to make a pretty flower bed and water feature. All of the critters found it on their own except for the koi, we had to buy them.

The displays in Vegas have the same purpose, to attract two legged human form visitors that drop off millions of dollars when they come to see the pretty lights. We could all go back to wearing feed sack clothes and live like the Amish, but I sure don't want to.

[sc_rufctr]

When my three children were living with me I ran a second refrigerator in the garage. Once they had all moved out I got rid of it.
Around the same time I replaced most of the light bulbs in my house with LEDs...

My next quarterly electricity bill was about $400 less!

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by kach22i

I'm working for a renewable energy consultant firm (engineering/installation/maintenance) in Michigan now, they order and buy PV panels for their clients so their clients can to finance the project as a single bill.

Making things easy is what it's all about - it's about convenience. This is why lights and faucets turn themselves on and off automatically these days.

Something so simple apparently is inconvenient.

Even in the stone age (1997), back when I was a student working for NREL, they had a metric for how far you had to be from the "grid" to make it cheaper to go solar. At the time it was 1/4 mile or more. I wonder what it is now?

(btw I am a believer, but I've also seen those things get made - I suspect a baby dolphin dies every time we make a solar cell. Arsine, phosgine, silane, HF acid everywhere, selenium everywhere else...)

[GH85Carrera]

No doubt we all waste a lot of energy. But what one person calls waste is essential to another.

I remember on of my PCA friends had a 16 year old daughter that thought we were a bunch of horrible old men to drive around in old cars and go for a long drive to Arkansas just to drive on curvy roads and chew up tires at the autocross, all just for fun. She refused to get a driver's license so she could think she was saving the planet. Of course she just had her parents drive her around. Then when she got older and left for college and discovered boys and cruising she finally decided to get a license, and then a car. Her parents gave her a limited budget and she ended up with some Mustang with a huge gas guzzling engine. She was home for Christmas and I asked her about the car and I was amazed to learn she was into cars, because her boyfriend was, and she finally understood why we go drive for no reason but that it is fun.

[jcommin]

I work in manufacturing and am a big advocate of taking advantage of energy rebate programs by energy providers. In the Chicago area, ComEd and Nigas are the major energy providers. They have energy saving programs for LED lighting, motors, HVAC, air leaks for air compressor systems. I have personally used these programs on new equipment that use electricity and/or natural gas . There are programs for solar use as well. They are annual and the pot of money is finite - so you got to get in early to submit the project to be eligible. Projects are vetted: data is collect before and after and the amount of money awarded is determined by the savings.

There are also rebates for residential users as well. Thermostats, energy efficient appliances, etc

When I first got into this, I thought "Why would a utility care what I use - rebates are a joke" It's not true -

[David]

^that’s a heart warming story (too slow, I meant the car story)

[island911]

So turn OFF that turtle pond pump.

[p911dad]

I think we could look to the former Soviet Union for some good ideas in making things gloomy and dark.

[rfuerst911sc]

My mother in law , the only time a light is off is when the bulb burns out 😡 . Drives me crazy as I was raised to turn off the lights when leaving the room . I have had polite discussions with her about energy waste .............. it was a waste of my energy 😁

[Por_sha911]

Want to reduce gasoline consumption by 1/3? Ban drive thru windows except for handicap vehicles.

[chapo]

Easy, I don't have kids, don't have AC, live modestly, whole house is LED, and dint stare at the TV, phone, or computer all day. They all take power.