Advice Please regarding a sale here on 911 used parts

[flyn-hawn]

Hello

I am searching for some input here. I bought a used 915 core transmission at the Phoenix club recently for resale here. I sold it on the 911 parts forum as a core, crated it and shipped it to a shop the customer had requested. Upon receipt of the box the shop contacted me and said the trans had previously be run low on oil and ruined pretty much all the internals.

The buyer reached out to me to ask for guidance on what to do. I offered to refund all my profit on the transaction, the buyer is requesting a full refund.

That is my dilemma, any input please, thanks

The original post is below

[flyn-hawn]

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1103195-fs-915-transmission-915-63-a.html

[RSTarga]

IMHO you sold it as a usable core, which it is not, full refund is due.

[PFNog]

You represented it as a usable core. That’s what the buyer was paying for. You did not deliver what you represented. Bottom line - you should refund the full purchase price and shipping- up to you if you want to pay to get it shipped back. You took a gamble in hopes of profit and it didn’t pay off. Take your lumps and do the right thing by the seller and you can hope to profit on another item in the future… otherwise who will trust you. This is about your reputation and your word- what’s it worth?

[CBA]

Sorry to hear about this. Tough situation… you were transparent on your post that you had no history on the tranny and it was a core. A core to me is just that, basically the case which would need to be completely gone through and rebuilt. I’m not a transmission expert so for what it was advertised for I would of been hesitate just because of what could happen if I bought something that wasn’t vetted which happened here… it was a risk to buy it and someone did.

Without knowing the conversation that took place between you and buyer I would take it back and be done with it and sleep well at night.

As mentioned above reputation is king and especially in the Porsche community because it is such a nice niche if people overall.

[Dan J]

Tough spot. Personally I'd give a full refund and take my lumps your rep is worth a lt more than that
Resell as a parts trans

[pmax]

Post the teardown pics.

I’m curious what the ‘ruined internals‘ look like. It will also inform on the fair settlement.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by pmax

Post the teardown pics.

I’m curious what the ‘ruined internals‘ look like. It will also inform on the fair settlement.

That's where I'm at too. It would be interesting to see what the shop is calling "unusable". If they can show with certainty that the parts are shot, I'd provide a full refund but I'd also want the transmission, fully reassembled, back because there is value in the case and some of the internal parts that would be okay regardless of the oil level. And unless you represented it as more than just a "core", I'd want the buyer to pay return shipping. I think it all hinges on the totality of the conversation and how it was represented not only in the ad but if you talked to the buyer as well. Sometimes things get said that another takes to mean something other than what was actually said.

[Matt Monson]

1. I would ask the shop who has it now for pictures.

2. ALWAYS remove the side cover and inspect the condition of the ring and pinion. It takes ten minutes. It is the only way to sell gearboxes.

Unfortunately, the right thing to do is refund their money, assuming it’s as bad as the shop says.

Be sure to get your parts back before issuing a refund. At a minimum the cases should be worth $1000 or more.

[porschyard]

I had a problem similar to this many years ago after selling a SBH 4 spd 930 box to a very well known shop in Arizona (PH). The main difference between my experience and the OP is i was very familiar with the gearbox i was selling.

After receiving the box the owner of the business called and said the shop that was inspecting the box for him called and said the box had major internal damage and he wanted to renegotiate the price. I called BS and reminded him that the box came out of my own personal car and i had built the box myself years earlier.

I suggested he go look at the box in person and I requested detailed pics and contact info of the shop so i could talk directly with the mechanic doing the inspection and was told he would go look at it personally and get back to me. I was not surprised when i never heard back from him.

I felt from the beginning that it was the shop inspecting the box trying to pull a fast one and not the purchaser but i never found out what the true story was. I would be asking for detailed pics and would try to speak with the tech doing the inspection and if the box is really in that bad of shape would either refund the money or possibly try to renegotiate the price.

As Matt has pointed out there is good value in many of the parts so hopefully you don't lose to much on the monetary side to retain and protect your name, reputation, and standing in the community. The OP situation is just another lesson to us all to either know what you are selling or make damn sure the buyer knows they are buying as is.

Richard

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by porschyard

I had a problem similar to this many years ago after selling a SBH 4 spd 930 box to a very well known shop in Arizona (PH). The main difference between my experience and the OP is i was very familiar with the gearbox i was selling.

After receiving the box the owner of the business called and said the shop that was inspecting the box for him called and said the box had major internal damage and he wanted to renegotiate the price. I called BS and reminded him that the box came out of my own personal car and i had built the box myself years earlier.

I suggested he go look at the box in person and I requested detailed pics and contact info of the shop so i could talk directly with the mechanic doing the inspection and was told he would go look at it personally and get back to me. I was not surprised when i never heard back from him.

I felt from the beginning that it was the shop inspecting the box trying to pull a fast one and not the purchaser but i never found out what the true story was. I would be asking for detailed pics and would try to speak with the tech doing the inspection and if the box is really in that bad of shape would either refund the money or possibly try to renegotiate the price.

As Matt has pointed out there is good value in many of the parts so hopefully you don't lose to much on the monetary side to retain and protect your name, reputation, and standing in the community. The OP situation is just another lesson to us all to either know what you are selling or make damn sure the buyer knows they are buying as is.

Richard

Chris Fisher. That’s all that needs to be said. Chris Fisher.

[porschyard]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Chris Fisher. That’s all that needs to be said. Chris Fisher.

LOL Matt I figured you would get that.

[daepp]

Split the baby down the middle?

[yelcab1]

If I were to buy a rebuildable core, I would expect a core that can be rebuilt to good order. In a gearbox, that is normally a set of syncros, dogteeth, some sliders, maybe a gear.

I certainly would not expect to install it and have it work out of the box.

Although, I would not pay $2500 for a core that needs rebuilding. That would be a working gearbox to me. Just my opinion.

[2.7RS]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

If I were to buy a rebuildable core, I would expect a core that can be rebuilt to good order. In a gearbox, that is normally a set of syncros, dogteeth, some sliders, maybe a gear.

I certainly would not expect to install it and have it work out of the box.

Although, I would not pay $2500 for a core that needs rebuilding. That would be a working gearbox to me. Just my opinion.

I totally agree with your statement

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

If I were to buy a rebuildable core, I would expect a core that can be rebuilt to good order. In a gearbox, that is normally a set of syncros, dogteeth, some sliders, maybe a gear.

I certainly would not expect to install it and have it work out of the box.

Although, I would not pay $2500 for a core that needs rebuilding. That would be a working gearbox to me. Just my opinion.

With a 915 you might as well figure main shaft and pinion shaft bearings and some machine work depending on the year the thing was made. Having toys costs money.

And I think we need to keep in mind that a shop will do things different than a DIY'er. Professional shops probably have a longer list of "consumables" than a someone rebuilding their own transmission. They might look at something and say it needs to go where the DIY'er might look at it and say "Yeah I can use that". The difference? One has a reputation on the line so they replace the part.

I sold a transmission earlier this year that needed 1 and 2 redone. I think I sold it for $2500. I was open about what it needed and had videos of me shifting the car through gears under hard throttle and normal driving. People have to keep in mind that these aren't new and doing a refresh isn't cheap. I think I had about $900 in just first, second, and some needle bearings.

Edit: The trans he sold was older. There's no cutout for the speed and reference sensors. Odds are the main and pinion bearings are wobbly.

Also to the OP, you might request pics from the shop and then reach out to the second person in line in your for sale thread. If the pics don't show any obvious damage maybe the second in line will take it and this mess will be cleaned up.

[tpweiss9953]

Stupid stupid. Sold as a core. Expectations vs reality. BS I wouldn’t pay back a dollar. Nothing promised in terms of condition. So if the trans ended up being perfect (thus worth more than $2500) should the buyer then pay the seller the difference as well? Should Dave now go back to the swap meet and find the seller and ask for funds back? Yeh that would go over well. Did the ad state anything about the condition of the trans, no.

I call absolute BS on this one. Dave doesn’t owe a dollar to the buyer. Dave is a stand up guy and paid me in full after his truck trailer and tens of thousands of dollars of parts etc got stolen. Did I expect it, no but he did it. That tells you everything you need to know about him.

Bought used parts with no warranty and so on. What did you expect? To only have to replace one gear, or two gears, or one sychro or all? That’s on the buyer as it always will be unless it’s stated or agreed upon beforehand.

We all bought parts, cars or whatever that are better than we expected and some that didn’t meet our “expectations”.

[stomachmonkey]

"No history on this, consider it a core. Located in San Diego CA 91945"

My interpretation of that is condition unknown, could be near perfect, could have issues, could be garbage and I'd be buying in "As is" condition.

That's not to say if I were seller I wouldn't refund minus shipping but buyer had to know they were rolling the dice on this and should accept their portion of the gamble.

[tpweiss9953]

Then why sell anything? With that rational no one would sell anything without having a lawyer involved. If that was agreed upon then yeh sure. But at the same time if just one gear or synchro was shot then does the buyer pay the seller Bc the value of the trans went up? No no way! That’s crazy way to think or do any sort of business transaction. The world would stop functioning. The buyer decided to buy with the information provided which is clear as day. So he owns it himself all the good and bad.

[Matt Monson]

The parameters of a good usable core gearbox are pretty well defined. It is expected to have a good ring and pinion and differential. The majority of the gears are expected to be good and the cases aren’t cracked.

Bearings, seals, synchros, shift forks, and the like may need replacement.

If you buy a core, and all the gears are rusty (water should never get inside a gearbox!!!) you have every right to be pissed. And this why my first response said show me the pictures.

The gearbox should be rebuildable. That’s what a core is.