How sick can people get?

[pwd72s]

Pretty sick, evidently.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2021/11/body-donated-to-science-dissected-in-front-of-paying-audience-at-portland-hotel.html

The body of a 98-year-old man who died of COVID-19 was dissected in front of a paying audience inside a downtown Portland hotel last month — after his wife thought she donated his body to science.

Seventy people gathered inside a meeting room at the Portland Marriott Downtown Waterfront — some paying up to $500 a ticket — to watch the autopsy of David Saunders, who lived in Louisiana with his 92-year-old wife until he died from the coronavirus.

Kimberly DiLeo, Multnomah County’s chief medicolegal death investigator, said she contacted the Portland Police Bureau and Oregon Medical Board before the Oct. 17 event to warn them about the potentially illegal autopsy.

Weeks later, county officials are reviewing laws to see if any were broken.

DiLeo said the way Saunders’ body was handled could be considered abuse of a body, a Class B felony in Oregon.

But Lt. Nathan Sheppard, a Portland police spokesperson, said detectives consulted with the Oregon Department of Justice, Oregon State Police and Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office and determined no crimes were committed during the autopsy.

He said civil laws may have been violated, including those that forbid certain postmortem examinations of bodies and place restrictions on the disposition of unclaimed bodies.

Only private citizens, not governmental agencies, can press civil charges.

DiLeo said in her 20 years of working as a death investigator, she has never seen anything like the event.

“It’s devastating to families,” DiLeo told The Oregonian/OregonLive. “On top of grieving the death of their loved ones, they have to deal with the fact that their loved one was desecrated, and that’s the last memory that they have.”

WIFE BELIEVED BODY WOULD BE USED FOR RESEARCH

When Saunders’ wife donated her husband’s body to Med Ed Labs, she recalls she was told the Las Vegas-based company would use his body for research and return his cremated remains in an urn.

She had no idea his body would wind up being dissected at a hotel in front of a paying audience, DiLeo said.

“As far as I’m concerned, it’s horrible, unethical, and I just don’t have the words to describe it,” Elsie Saunders, the wife of David Saunders, told Baton Rouge-based newspaper The Advocate. “I have all this paperwork that says his body would be used for science — nothing about this commercialization of his death.”

But media company Death Science bought Saunders’ body from Med Ed Labs for use in a “Cadaver Lab Class” held during the Oddities and Curiosities Expo, an annual traveling event marketed toward “lovers of the strange, unusual and bizarre.”

The Portland event was initially scheduled to be held at the Courtyard by Marriott hotel near the Oregon Convention Center, DiLeo said, but hotel staff canceled the event after she called them.

The venue was then changed to the Portland Marriott Downtown Waterfront hotel, which went ahead with the event despite DiLeo’s concerns, she said.

Death Science founder Jeremy Ciliberto said in a statement Wednesday that he purchased Saunders’ body from Med Ed Labs, which told him the company had done a serology test on the body to rule out any infectious diseases.

But he said Med Ed Labs — which solicits whole body donations, purportedly for training healthcare, military and law enforcement workers — did not tell him Saunders died of COVID-19.

DiLeo said Saunders’ COVID-19 diagnosis could have put anyone who was near his body at risk, as viral genetic material can be present on a body weeks or more after death.

Greg Clark, the owner of a Baton Rouge funeral home that handled Saunders’ body before it was donated to Med Ed Labs, said his staff was shocked by what happened.

“We are extremely saddened for the loss of the widow and what she is going through,” Clark told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Tuesday. He declined to comment further.

Ciliberto apologized for “undue stress” the event caused Saunders’ family and said Death Science would no longer work with Med Ed Labs.

“Death Science is currently conducting an internal review to create stronger vetting processes when partnering with future businesses and organizations,” Ciliberto said.

He said that while Death Science helped organize, promote and sell tickets for the event, Med Ed Labs sold the cadaver, provided the anatomist and secured the venue.

Hotel staffers were also aware of the planned autopsy, Ciliberto said, and they helped move the cadaver and position the operating table, lighting and seating on the day of the event.

Martin McAllister, the hotel’s general manager, contradicted Ciliberto’s version of events in a statement Thursday.

“Our hotel team was grossly misled by the client about the nature of this event,” McAllister said. “We understand the public’s concerns about the activities that transpired, and we are reviewing our process for vetting medical event inquiries in light of this situation.”

Med Ed Labs did not provide comment to The Oregonian/OregonLive, and the Oddities and Curiosities Expo did not respond to a request for comment.

A second Cadaver Lab Class scheduled to take place on Halloween in Seattle was reportedly canceled before it could take place.

BODY MISHANDLED, OFFICIAL SAYS

DiLeo said Saunders’ body was mishandled on the day of his autopsy.

Anyone interacting with a body during an autopsy or death investigation must wear personal protective equipment, including a medical gown, face mask, eye protection and gloves, DiLeo said.

But in a video taken at the Portland event by KING-TV, which first reported about the event and ensuing fallout, a person wearing only wrist-length gloves, a face mask and glasses can be seen handling Saunders’ body. Attendees are shown gathering closely around the operating table, and one attendee wearing only rubber gloves and a face mask is shown leaning over the cadaver and touching it.

DiLeo also said autopsies and death investigations must be done by people with valid licenses or certifications.

And Colin Henderson, a retired University of Montana anatomy professor who performed the autopsy, does not have an active license to practice medicine in Oregon, according to the Oregon Medical Board website. He could not immediately be reached for comment.

DiLeo said she also isn’t sure how Ciliberto, who has no professional background in medicine or death investigations, was allowed to purchase the body from Med Ed Labs.

Ciliberto — who has a podcast and YouTube and TikTok channels dedicated to his interest in “death science” — said the Cadaver Lab Class was meant to be “educational” and increase interest in science, technology, engineering and medical professions.

But DiLeo said the event was harmful to the scientific community and Saunders’ wife, who has asked Med Ed Labs to return her husband’s body to Louisiana instead of cremating him because she no longer trusts the company will send her the correct remains.

DiLeo said Multnomah County officials will work to enact legislation that would prevent similar events from being held if current laws are inadequate.

“It’s very difficult for families,” she said. “It discourages people from donating their bodies to science, and it may also give them a lack of trust in the death investigation profession.”

[Sooner or later]

Damn

[Seahawk]

Learn to post this type of stuff in PARF, Paul.

Get used to it now before next week happens.

[911boost]

I do not see how this is a PARF topic.

Unless there was some post or message I missed Paul.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by 911boost

I do not see how this is a PARF topic.

Unless there was some post or message I missed Paul.

CV-19 is a complete touch stone that starts with an argument and ends poorly.

Just start it in PARF...no censorship, just common sense.

Again, please volunteer and I will go away before you can blink.

[Sooner or later]

I don't see this as a covid subject. It is about an outrageous "autopsy" and donation to "research".

[craigster59]

I've told this story before, but here we go again.

I was working on a film where we were building a big laboratory that was going to eventually get destroyed at the end of the film. That meant we either needed to purchase everything (as opposed to renting) or get the items through product placement.

We had a contact through Olympus to get some microscopes and the local rep told us about some older lab equipment that he had gotten out of UCLA when he sold them a bunch of microscopes and lab equipment. He had it at a facility up in Santa Clarita and was tired of paying storage fees for the last 5 years and would sell it to us cheap if we would empty the unit and take everything.

Well, we get up there and the storage unit was crammed with stuff. We start going through it and we're rolling stuff out and there's these large stainless steel containers, looked like a horizontal locker on wheels.

We've got some small tabletop stuff, meters , centrifuges, etc so one of the guys gets the bright idea to transport the small stuff in one of these lockers.

To make a long story short, he opens the locker and there's a dead woman inside! Not just any dead woman, an old cadaver from their gross anatomy lab. We called the police, coroner and UCLA and they got down there and whisked her away.

I later found out that they eventually gave her a decent send off after all those years. I also found out that I would never donate my body to science.

[911boost]

thanks Seahawk, Like Sooner I saw this more about folks paying to see an autopsy than the covids.

Mainly wanted to make sure I did not miss a policy change as I was out of pocket all week walking around the woods with a spoon and not shooting anything.

[KNS]

What happened to the deceased in the story was clearly a mistake and should have never taken place. It is a shame for the survivors.

Having said that - I worked in a hospital way back when and I knew the on staff pathologist quite well. He did a lot of the autopsies for the hospital. He asked once if I'd like to assist in an autopsy and I said sure. It was fascinating.

Edit - Before anyone suggests I'm a weirdo, my Mother and Father both worked in medicine and I've also had jobs working in and around hospitals for much of my life (my first job ever was at LA County General hospital). Working in EMS/air ambulance for 20 years you see a lot of trauma and you tend to get "conditioned". Ask any first responder or someone who works in an ER.

[cabmandone]

There are a lot of weird people in this world. I wonder if I could get them to pay to watch me field dress a deer? I could do one show a month for about 6 months. I might be onto a new revenue stream here!

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by 911boost

thanks Seahawk, Like Sooner I saw this more about folks paying to see an autopsy than the covids.

I have gotten dozens of PMs just asking to move threads to PARF, especially the threads that start with, "Please don't PARF this up..."

Crabby and I will figure this out but I going to lean a little bit to the move side for a bit.

Again and not for the last time, if my discretion is an issue, please volunteer and replace me. I am only doing this because there are at least seven people I have met in the real world that no longer post here because OT became an angrier place than it should be.

PARF exists for a reason. I like PARF. I like OT. They need to be separate and distinct.

[stevej37]

98 years old...did the audience see anything other than dust??

If they wanted to do that to me....I would have no problem with it.

[911boost]

Hell no, you can be a mod, I have ZERO interest in doing that.

I am also on board with moving things to PARF and cheering this place up a bit more. Maybe we can get people like Matt to start posting again, I miss his car ADD.

[GH85Carrera]

Back when cable was newer, there was a show about Dr. Bader and he did real autopsies on real humans. It was part of finding how someone died, and it was interesting. They did not get too gory, but it was always evident it was no "TV fakery" it was a real autopsy. It was interesting.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by cabmando

There are a lot of weird people in this world. I wonder if I could get them to pay to watch me field dress a deer? I could do one show a month for about 6 months. I might be onto a new revenue stream here!

I’d pay for that if there is an educational aspect.
If you are a gore fetisjist and field dress them buck-naked, I’m out.

[DonDavis]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

...I am only doing this because...

Wait, what? You're our Moderator?

Why does the comic strip Bloom County come to mind?

[masraum]

Wow, that's seriously FUBAR!

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I have gotten dozens of PMs just asking to move threads to PARF, especially the threads that start with, "Please don't PARF this up..."...

Sounds like those folks are the real problem.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Sounds like those folks are the real problem.

May I recommend a burlap sack and heavy stones.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I have gotten dozens of PMs just asking to move threads to PARF, especially the threads that start with, "Please don't PARF this up..."

Crabby and I will figure this out but I going to lean a little bit to the move side for a bit.

Again and not for the last time, if my discretion is an issue, please volunteer and replace me. I am only doing this because there are at least seven people I have met in the real world that no longer post here because OT became an angrier place than it should be.

PARF exists for a reason. I like PARF. I like OT. They need to be separate and distinct.

Good luck Paul... the "mixed past" of dual threads (both here and PARF), then zero moderation for a few years, then blurred lines have taken it's toll. Have at it and clean it up . I've never visited the Island, and rarely visit PARF, but know where to find both....

Cap'n Poopiehead .... and I salute you!

It's not the "topics" imo.... it's the nastiness....

Don't PARF this up