Tankless water heater

[zakthor]

Have had a jacuzzi tub for twenty years. House came with two water tanks. 16 years ago we replaced them with a new single gas unit. Result is only 6” of hot water before its flowing cold. No baths.

Tank is past time to replace, got quotes for 1, 2 and tankless and went for a 200k btu rinnai. I really wanted a bath.

Company provided some cognitively challenged installers so took them 14 hours to complete but they need to return to put in an intake for outside air.

Result i had the tub up to my nibbles in hot water. Device comes with a recirc pump with programmable schedule. Its absolutely fantastic. Wish wed done it 16 years ago.

Check this gas line routing, 12 pieces where they could have used 4. Said they expected to come back after inspection.

Im just happy to have a big hot bath.

[biosurfer1]

Make sure to insulate the hot water lines as best you can with that recirc pump otherwise you might get a nasty shock when your gas bill arrives.

[Zeke]

I counted more that 12 but kinda hard to avoid the union.

But double 90's and two close nipples in a row is pretty lazy. Must not have had a thread cutter and were working strictly out of the parts bins.

I can't see the exact angle of the double nipples, so they might have been necessary to adjust the angle. So after that, only 3 unnecessary fittings.

[IS300]

why didn't they use a flex line for the gas?

[Jay Auskin]

That's quite the jigsaw puzzle. It looks like they kicked the gas line out to have more room for the water connections and shutoffs. IMO, it would make more sense to run the gas pipe lower from the shutoff (mostly hidden in this photo), angle it straight towards the wall, and go straight up? Of course, I can't see what else is not in the photo.

[Evans, Marv]

I have two originally installed Rinnai tankless water heaters for our house. Other than sometimes taking extra time for the hot water to arrive, they're great. We have a circulating pump for the back bedrooms that shortens the arrival time of hot water. I'll never go back to tank water heaters. Another plus is that tankless water heaters are supposed to be one of the longest lasting appliances - 20 years.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I have two originally installed Rinnai tankless water heaters for our house. Other than sometimes taking extra time for the hot water to arrive, they're great. We have a circulating pump for the back bedrooms that shortens the arrival time of hot water. I'll never go back to tank water heaters. Another plus is that tankless water heaters are supposed to be one of the longest lasting appliances - 20 years.

I've never had a modern style tankless.
When we lived off base in Japan ~1983, we had a tank for heating oil, and the water heater used that oil and was "instant". You could take a shower forever and the water never got cold and it was HOT. I loved it and would be happy to have one again.

Our current electric water heater needs to be replaced. I suspect the bottom is full of sediment and the whole thing is probably coated with minerals from our hard water.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by IS300

why didn't they use a flex line for the gas?

That was my question, as we do it at every house.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

Make sure to insulate the hot water lines as best you can with that recirc pump otherwise you might get a nasty shock when your gas bill arrives.

Yeah i am wary of it. Especially when it isnt winter. Ill cover what i can but most is behind the drywall. Neighbors said recirc was the best… i was going to set recirc schedule but recirc can be requested via wifi which makes the most sense to me. First day wife was raving about recirc anc you know what they say…Weve got a huge run to master bath so normally waste a lot of water, recirc cuts 90 seconds of running water down to 3 minute wait and 15 seconds of running water, pretty damn great.

We lived in hokkaido in the early 90s. Had a propane instant heater with manual valves and a click sparker. Thing was brutal and utterly unable to manage mixing and variable water pressure. Got burned a few times while also getting sprayed with freezing water. Interesting to be so cold, desperate for hot shower, and then combine with the fear of scalding… ice on the inside of our single pane windows. Brrr.

Flex line: they kept saying they wished they had it, dont know what their deal was with available parts. They definitely had some cognitive issues as everything took them forever and they still kept messing up. Guy took forever with the pipe cutter. I dunno… glad its over.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Yeah i am wary of it. Especially when it isnt winter. Ill cover what i can but most is behind the drywall. Neighbors said recirc was the best… i was going to set recirc schedule but recirc can be requested via wifi which makes the most sense to me. First day wife was raving about recirc anc you know what they say…Weve got a huge run to master bath so normally waste a lot of water, recirc cuts 90 seconds of running water down to 3 minute wait and 15 seconds of running water, pretty damn great.

We lived in hokkaido in the early 90s. Had a propane instant heater with manual valves and a click sparker. Thing was brutal and utterly unable to manage mixing and variable water pressure. Got burned a few times while also getting sprayed with freezing water. Interesting to be so cold, desperate for hot shower, and then combine with the fear of scalding… ice on the inside of our single pane windows. Brrr.

Flex line: they kept saying they wished they had it, dont know what their deal was with available parts. They definitely had some cognitive issues as everything took them forever and they still kept messing up. Guy took forever with the pipe cutter. I dunno… glad its over.

Weird about the bad water in Hokkaido. We lived at the northern most end of the main island, and that's where we had the great instant on in the 80s.

Crazy about the flex line, "well go get some." That sucks to have crap contractors. You never know when that's going to be the case.

[Evans, Marv]

Originally Posted by masraum

I've never had a modern style tankless.
When we lived off base in Japan ~1983, we had a tank for heating oil, and the water heater used that oil and was "instant". You could take a shower forever and the water never got cold and it was HOT. I loved it and would be happy to have one again.

Our current electric water heater needs to be replaced. I suspect the bottom is full of sediment and the whole thing is probably coated with minerals from our hard water.

I've never heard of a tankless water heater using heating oil. Maybe it could be found on the east coast somewhere. I wonder about heating oil soot clogging up the heat exchanger. Ours runs off of propane. Both put out up to 6.1 gpm of hot water. I've said this before in threads about tankless water heaters, but we use .17 gpd of propane, so I have my 250 gal. tank refilled every two years (usually filled to 80% and refilled at around 20%). There are only two of us, so usage isn't as heavy at a family of five. Our usage is the usual things: bathing, kitchen, laundry, cooking, etc. The circulation pump circulates the hot water on a loop. So in the case of the bathrooms in the rear of the house, when you turn the pump on and open a shower valve, the hot water in the loop circulates to that valve (or any/all open valves).

[Flat Six]

Have had tankless (both Rinnai, RL94 like you have there) in our last couple of houses. So happy we did that.

Didn't do the recirculating pump in our last house, fixed that oversight in our current home. Ours is set to recirculate from 5a to 11p every day (I'm pretty sure every 15 minutes or so).

A couple of tips:

1) For interior units like yours (and mine), periodically remove the cover and blow out the unit as it'll collect dust (lots of that here in the desert) and -- in my case -- sawdust from woodworking projects.

2) Regularly de-scaling the water passages in the heat exchanger will help maintain the heat efficiency and longevity of your unit. Had to do it annually in Portland where we had moderately hard water; I suspect Beaux Arts to be similar. Here in Las Vegas the water is really hard, but since we feed the Rinnai w/softened water de-scaling once every two years feels about right. You should be able to get a copy of the annual water quality report from your water provider. Don't forget to check & clean the filter/strainer just above the cold water feed valve.

3) From what I hear the most likely malfunction is that the igniter will fail (it looks just like the one on my gas grill). If it ever malfunctions, it's pretty easy to replace. I was all set to do that a few weeks ago when ours tossed a code, but when I pulled the igniter it looked fine, just a little corroded/oxidized. Cleaned it up with some Scotchbrite and now is bueno.

[Evans, Marv]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

Have had tankless (both Rinnai, RL94 like you have there) in our last couple of houses. So happy we did that.

Didn't do the recirculating pump in our last house, fixed that oversight in our current home. Ours is set to recirculate from 5a to 11p every day (I'm pretty sure every 15 minutes or so).

A couple of tips:

1) For interior units like yours (and mine), periodically remove the cover and blow out the unit as it'll collect dust (lots of that here in the desert) and -- in my case -- sawdust from woodworking projects.

2) Regularly de-scaling the water passages in the heat exchanger will help maintain the heat efficiency and longevity of your unit. Had to do it annually in Portland where we had moderately hard water; I suspect Beaux Arts to be similar. Here in Las Vegas the water is really hard, but since we feed the Rinnai w/softened water de-scaling once every two years feels about right. You should be able to get a copy of the annual water quality report from your water provider. Don't forget to check & clean the filter/strainer just above the cold water feed valve.

3) From what I hear the most likely malfunction is that the igniter will fail (it looks just like the one on my gas grill). If it ever malfunctions, it's pretty easy to replace. I was all set to do that a few weeks ago when ours tossed a code, but when I pulled the igniter it looked fine, just a little corroded/oxidized. Cleaned it up with some Scotchbrite and now is bueno.

We have a button we push to start the circulating pump. We only push it when we need to take a shower normally. The pump cost $500 about thirteen years ago, so I'm happy not to run it daily for hours. I've never looked at the interior heat exchanger to see it it has dust buildup. I know the exterior one doesn't have it. Thanks for the tip on that and the igniter. I have an outsized water softener for the house. The last time I descaled mine, I couldn't detect any scaling, & that was maybe eight or nine years ago. I think I'll descale them this summer for good measure. Thanks.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

We have a button we push to start the circulating pump. We only push it when we need to take a shower normally. The pump cost $500 about thirteen years ago, so I'm happy not to run it daily for hours. I've never looked at the interior heat exchanger to see it it has dust buildup. I know the exterior one doesn't have it. Thanks for the tip on that and the igniter. I have an outsized water softener for the house. The last time I descaled mine, I couldn't detect any scaling, & that was maybe eight or nine years ago. I think I'll descale them this summer for good measure. Thanks.

Yeah, I get that recirc 18 hours a day doesn't make sense for a lot of folks.

We use hot water all the time, it's our go-to for washing hands and pots & pans and such. The pump doesn't take much electricity and it doesn't hurt that our energy pricing (both electricity & gas) is significantly lower than when we lived in SoCal.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

. . . The last time I descaled mine, I couldn't detect any scaling, & that was maybe eight or nine years ago. I think I'll descale them this summer for good measure. Thanks.

BTW, it's a good idea to at least check/clean the filter screen every once in a while -- amazing what kind of grit can get in there even with soft water.

[Evans, Marv]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

our energy pricing (both electricity & gas) is significantly lower than when we lived in SoCal.

I think our electric rates are the highest in the nation right now, & they're usually near the highest. Right now the rate is $.37/kWh up to 520 kW. After that it's $.47/kWh. Additionally the power company is trying to raise fees on all solar customers. There was so much outcry, even the CPUC (that is in the power utilities' pockets) backed down on the rate & fee increases. I'm happy I have solar and tankless water heaters.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I think our electric rates are the highest in the nation right now, & they're usually near the highest. Right now the rate is $.37/kWh up to 520 kW. After that it's $.47/kWh. Additionally the power company is trying to raise fees on all solar customers. There was so much outcry, even the CPUC (that is in the power utilities' pockets) backed down on the rate & fee increases. I'm happy I have solar and tankless water heaters.

Yup, when we last lived in Thousand Oaks (2015) the base rate was $0.276 -- SCE. Not surprised to see 40% higher today. I pay $0.106/kWh.

[Deschodt]

Interesting that the argument you make for a tankless (which is valid for you) is one I might have made against... It's like everything, it all depends on setup and location factors, I guess..

In my previous house (way bigger than current) we went tankless but it was on the side of the gas meter (to avoid drilling for a gas line under the house) and it took *forever* to push enough hot water to the bathrooms on the opposite side and both floors of the house... Also on the new home (new tank) I like the idea of a tank for a reserve of hot water when power goes out (which it does way more)... The main advantage for us with tankless was peace of mind - our old water tank was upstairs, a risky proposition if it ever failed... Finally, with gas up 90% this year, ouch -not sure if tank or tankless are worse in gas consumption, but I'm going electric next time ! Done with Gas, it's too geopolitical ! Only thing I'll leave on gas is my trifuel generator, since gas doesn't gum up the carb !

[GH85Carrera]

We have a natural gas water heater and furnace. When it was time to replace our water heater put in by the builder, I looked into tankless. At the time the "good" tankless units were all Japanese, and expensive as heck. And they would require a bigger natural gas supply line to be run from the meter. That was going to cost a lot. We do have a bathtub with the water jets and it is bit enough to sit way down into it. I have never used it, but my wife has. Our water heater will fill it with no problem.

In the end, we have never once run out of hot water, and there was just reason for us to go tankless. I have taken some long showers after a day of working in the garage, and getting dirty, and sore.

And that plumbing job looks like it was done by a first time plumber assistant.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

We have a natural gas water heater and furnace. When it was time to replace our water heater put in by the builder, I looked into tankless. At the time the "good" tankless units were all Japanese, and expensive as heck. And they would require a bigger natural gas supply line to be run from the meter. That was going to cost a lot. We do have a bathtub with the water jets and it is bit enough to sit way down into it. I have never used it, but my wife has. Our water heater will fill it with no problem.

In the end, we have never once run out of hot water, and there was just reason for us to go tankless. I have taken some long showers after a day of working in the garage, and getting dirty, and sore.

And that plumbing job looks like it was done by a first time plumber assistant.

Named "Rube."