Fan fell off the top of the heat pump housing

[masraum]

Yep, we had freezing (just barely) temps last night. I went out a bit ago to look at the outdoor unit. It still has a thin coat of ice, but something seemed weird, so I looked more closely through the top, and discovered that the fan is no longer attached to the top of the housing, but is instead laying on top of the compressor.

I'm not going to go try to fix it now (coated in ice). I'd like to think that I could maybe pull the top off and attach the fan to the top again once things thaw a bit. I guess the good news is that our heat comes from the electric heat backup when it's this cold.

Fark, fark, fark!

[cabmandone]

Sometimes things have a way of telling you it's time.

[masraum]

this fargin' weather sucks. It was 31º when I went to bed last night. It was 33º when I woke up this morning. The temp all day has bounced back and forth between 34º and 35º. They say the high today will be 39º, but I don't see it. Tomorrow is supposed to be 40º. Sat is supposed to top out of 44º. Two or three days ago, it was 80º.

Fortunately, the current failure isn't really going to impact us until the temp gets up to closer to 45-50º. I'll need to do something by then. I'll probably be out working on it Sat or Sun.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Sometimes things have a way of telling you it's time.

Yeah, build date for the whole system 1991.

It's just better when it's a slow failure or a failure when it's not an extreme of hot or cold. But that usually seems to be the case.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, build date for the whole system 1991.

It's just better when it's a slow failure or a failure when it's not an extreme of hot or cold. But that usually seems to be the case.

One thing I learned when I was doing HVAC full time was that they ALWAYS fail at the worst possible time. Record heatwave? You can bet your ass there are gonna be A/C problems. Cold spell? Yep! Furnaces and heat pumps were gonna have problems.

Maybe what I should do is just wait for the hot and cold spells to do HVAC again. I could work six months out of the year and make more than most people working a full year.

[cabmandone]

BTW, on the weather front it was 60 here on Tuesday. Wednesday rolls around... low 20's. Ohio can be such a bich sometimes.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmando

BTW, on the weather front it was 60 here on Tuesday. Wednesday rolls around... low 20's. Ohio can be such a bich sometimes.

Yep, could be worse, at least it's not last year.

[masraum]

Can I assume that getting to the fan is probably as easy as removing all of the screws around the top of the heat pump? I assume there's not much to the top other than the wires to the fan and it's essentially a mounting plate for the fan.

[cabmandone]

Should just be 4 or 6 screws to take the top cage off and yeah it should be that easy.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Should just be 4 or 6 screws to take the top cage off and yeah it should be that easy.

Thanks, that's what I was assuming.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by cabmando

One thing I learned when I was doing HVAC full time was that they ALWAYS fail at the worst possible time. Record heatwave? You can bet your ass there are gonna be A/C problems. Cold spell? Yep! Furnaces and heat pumps were gonna have problems.

Maybe what I should do is just wait for the hot and cold spells to do HVAC again. I could work six months out of the year and make more than most people working a full year.

We got really lucky. We had just finished a cold spell, and I noticed it was cool in the house. Our furnace would ignite, but go out in a tenth of a second. Then it cycled three times trying to ignite, and then it just stopped trying. I called a father son duo. Dad is trying to teach the 30 something son the business. They tried a few things, and it still refused to ignite. They drove off to the local supply store, and had to replace the entire motherboard. That fixed everything.

It was sunny 75 degrees that day so the house was not cold. I joked with them that with such pleasant working condition, I should get a discount. The both agreed it is usually super cold when fixing furnaces, and 100+ when fixing AC units.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

We got really lucky. We had just finished a cold spell, and I noticed it was cool in the house. Our furnace would ignite, but go out in a tenth of a second. Then it cycled three times trying to ignite, and then it just stopped trying. I called a father son duo. Dad is trying to teach the 30 something son the business. They tried a few things, and it still refused to ignite. They drove off to the local supply store, and had to replace the entire motherboard. That fixed everything.

It was sunny 75 degrees that day so the house was not cold. I joked with them that with such pleasant working condition, I should get a discount. The both agreed it is usually super cold when fixing furnaces, and 100+ when fixing AC units.

Yep.

Fortunately, at least when the temps are in the 30s, the fan really isn't important, the electric backup heat is where the heat comes from.

The other really unfortunate part is that the system is a 1991 system, so if we call someone, I feel certain there's going to tell us "can't fix it, have to install a whole new system." Which has to happen, but I hope doesn't have to happen this weekend or next week.

I suspect I'll be out there looking at it soon to see if I can get the fan mounted, so when the temps start coming back up on Sun, the heat pump portion of the system, will hopefully work.

[bob deluke]

Nothing like working on a rubber roof in the middle of winter, freezing cold, windy and roof is like a skating rink. No paraphet on the roof edge either, one slip and over you go. In the summer working on a black built up roof, 95+ degrees and roof temp about 120 degrees, work boots gummed up with asphalt, customer screaming about no cooling or heat. He gets the bill, and is pissed about the cost. Man don’t miss those days at all. No amount of money is worth that grief. Little wonder commercial hvac tech are hard to find and keep. If you think that’s bad, try refrigeration work in a restaurant. Kitchens are horror stories, never know what you’ll find behind a freezer or an oven. Residential work is a snap compared to commercial and industrial hvac.

[masraum]

I was looking at it more closely. I think the fan motor has 3 wires going to it. It looks like 2 of the wires broke, and it's hanging by a third where the wires going into the motor. I'm betting that's not something that I'm going to be able to fix. I'll try to get a better look, and then I'll probably have to call someone

sheiße, sheiße, SHEIßE!

[T77911S]

replacing a fan motor is easy
the hardest part is usually getting the fan off the motor.
just shut off the disconnect.

two wires wired to 240v, the third wired to a capacitor that is connected to one leg of the 240.
replace the CAP too. there are several ways they can make that work.

most likely one leg of 240 goes to the motor. the other goes to one side of the CAP and the motor, then the other side of cap goes to the third wire of motor.

first thing I thought of was rust causing the fan to break off.

[bob deluke]

to get the fan off the shaft, cut the shaft off between the fan and motor. Soak the set screw or grub screw with penetrant, seeing that the fan has been on the shaft since 1991 and is probably rusted on pretty good. Put fan shoulder in a vice and use a punch to drive out the shaft from the fan, hopefully you can remount the fan on the new motor shaft. Don’t try to drive the fan off the shaft with the motor attached. You’ll only bend the fan blades or mushroom the shaft end. Hook up wires like T77 says and use a new cap. Easy peasy job if you take your time. Good luck!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by T77911S

replacing a fan motor is easy
the hardest part is usually getting the fan off the motor.
just shut off the disconnect.

two wires wired to 240v, the third wired to a capacitor that is connected to one leg of the 240.
replace the CAP too. there are several ways they can make that work.

most likely one leg of 240 goes to the motor. the other goes to one side of the CAP and the motor, then the other side of cap goes to the third wire of motor.

first thing I thought of was rust causing the fan to break off.

Turns out one fan blade had gotten covered in ice, and then the fan started and was super out of balance and ripped the nuts right through the mounting plate.

They we going to do what I thought about, repair the 2 broken wires and mount the thing back up, but the mounting studs were too rusty and one broke. They are now going to see if they have or can get a replacement motor that will work.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by masraum

I was looking at it more closely. I think the fan motor has 3 wires going to it. It looks like 2 of the wires broke, and it's hanging by a third where the wires going into the motor. I'm betting that's not something that I'm going to be able to fix. I'll try to get a better look, and then I'll probably have to call someone

sheiße, sheiße, SHEIßE!

I was wondering when you said the fan was where it was if some wires weren't broken.
Actually as long as the power is off and you use the heat shrink splice connectors, you should be able to handle it. I think the wires should go to the capacitor (be careful there) and one to the open side of the contactor. They should all use spade connectors which you can source. Shouldn't be a big issue as long as there's room on the fan to splice.

[masraum]

The guys did manage to get a new fan motor installed. They took my motor and fan, went back to their warehouse, and came back later with a motor and my old blade. They got it wired up and working.

Thanks for all of the info and thoughts and encouragement, folks.

[Por_sha911]

Start looking for a new unit now. Most trades are so backed up and units or parts are in short supply. Here's some encouragement: a newer unit will be so much more efficient it will start paying you back the first day you use it.