Liveaboard boat guys, what’s it really cost?

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

Id recommend getting a good quality mono in the 35'-40' range. That's big enough to have some comfort features, but not so expensive as to break the bank. You should be able to sail it yourself once proficient, and its big enough for safe coastal cruising. I dont know what your budget is, but older is cheaper. And if you look, you can find very well maintained older boats (pre 2000). Newer is not always better.

So I like the layout space and relative comfort of the cats. Why do you suggest the monohull instead? (Certainly they’re cheaper and cost less to dock)

[911_Dude]

No other reason than Im a mono hull guy. Cats are fine, depending on what you want to do.

[hcoles]

Mono-hulls self right. Cats don't.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

If your a "bluewater" sailor, a mono hull will right itself if it gets "pitchpoled" or "blown over".
With a CAT you become Shark food if you flip over.
Coastal cruising over shallow coral reefs is what CAT's do best.
I'll stick with my J-22 mono hull between So-Cal & Catalina, waking up for "breakfast on the hook" in the calm harbor is a cool experience.
Suggest bringing two cell phones, one to show your GPS position and one to show the BIG A** ships in the intercoastal channel. Hearing their horns in foggy conditions is spooky.

https://boataffair.com/blog/72-what-is-a-catamaran

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

If your a "bluewater" sailor, a mono hull will right itself if it gets "pitchpoled" or "blown over".
With a CAT you become Shark food if you flip over.
Coastal cruising over shallow coral reefs is what CAT's do best.
I'll stick with my J-22 mono hull between So-Cal & Catalina, waking up for "breakfast on the hook" in the calm harbor is a cool experience.
Suggest bringing two cell phones, one to show your GPS position and one to show the BIG A** ships in the intercoastal channel. Hearing their horns in foggy conditions is spooky.

https://boataffair.com/blog/72-what-is-a-catamaran

Isn't AIS pretty much required for any big vessels (Actually almost all) these days?

Understand that without a keel catamarans stay flipped once over - but if you're careful with the sails that seems really unlikely. Most cruisers I see generally only run a spinnaker, code zero or genoa as its the main that seems most likely to tip you in the event of unexpected wind. Those sails seem to shred before they would actually pull over a wide cat.

The cat is attractive to me for the space - but also for the wife's comfort. She's a willing partner in this idea - but not sure how far that extends just yet. Need to get her on both as well.



This is all great discussion folks - really appreciate it. I'm doing some detailed financial planning so I understand what my ranges of possibilities are. Unfortunately with the market uncertainly - I could have somewhere between 50% more than my basic monthly expenses and 300% more. ...but having a plan is where it starts. Then we see how it goes.

What I do know is that I might be willing to work an extra year to buy what I want - and spend that year working on and off the boat getting it to where I want it to be.

[hcoles]

You are answering your own question. If you go into the world of small boating and are concerned about comfort then you may be on the wrong track. However, a common story is people get a boat and spend time fixing it up ready to "take off" and never do. That could be a good thing - it's fun to fix things up as we all know.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by hcoles

You are answering your own question. If you go into the world of small boating and are concerned about comfort then you may be on the wrong track. However, a common story is people get a boat and spend time fixing it up ready to "take off" and never do. That could be a good thing - it's fun to fix things up as we all know.

Comfort is relative. We camp - we've lived in small RV's and enjoy it. Wifey understands the nature and expense of these things. The variable is the water.

[dsfnctn]

I started as a Porsche mechanic at the local dealer in 1974. The owner of the dealer was really into racing sailboats. I became his Gilligan. I contuinued for the next 15-20 years working on the cars and making simmer races to hawaii from Victoria, BC, Los Angeles, and San Fransisco. I have around 100K ocean sailing miles. I also have lived on varius sailboats for 40+ years. This is way before Youtube and for that matter navigation nannies.
Now during those years it seemed like (Im talking Seattle based) living on the boat required having a rented space to have all the things that you cant fit on a boat.
Fast forward 2019 this is when seattle really started getting bad and my lifestyle needed and overhaul. I had an old building rented at 40 cents a foot indoor about 6,000 sq feet. I ran a boat repair/custom composit shop that i also stached my 6 or so aircooled cars including race cars. Once the tech moved in then the buildings became popular for cross fit and breweries , distilleries and the price rose to $3 dollars a ft. couple that to the fact that the homeless moved in I had to make a plan. My peacefull live aboard lifestyle was now shared with derelict boats moving into the marina and loosers moving on to the boats seceretly that did not have a live aboard permit.
Just three months ago i said im thru and moved out of the city and bought a nice
home in the country with a 2,000sq foot manufacturing space and a 3,000 sq foot shop.
I still have my sailboat as well as a power boat. Im spending a lot of time in isolation but now looking forward to my next sailing adventure.

I have sailed in many countries as also charter as well. Iam about to get on a plane and head to mexico in a few days. I would buy a cat in a minute over a monohull .
I would look at it like going from a street car to a race car when it comes to the slippery slope.
The race car sailboat is super fun to sail and will be able to race with the weather systems keeping you out of trouble, but living in a race car can bee a bit uncomfortable.

For you I would recomend keep watching the Wynns while you figure out what it is your looking for. Also check out the Volvo Ocean race on Youtube and report back.

In the time we live now and when you want to get a boat everyone will be foiling. comming to a marina near you.

[JeremyD]

I always tell my friends that owning a boat makes owning a Porsche (even tracking it) seem reasonable.

I follow a few Youtube sailors -

This couple recently started - https://www.youtube.com/c/ExpeditionEvans

This couple is probably the most famous - https://www.youtube.com/c/SailingLaVagabonde

I've had 15 or so boats over the years and just added a Bertram 31 that's getting some work done to it and we are hopefully going to overnight.

[dsfnctn]

The OP was asking about cost.
It exactly like buying a Porsche. Your best move is to buy smart. The operating expense is not that bad providing you dont buy a timed out POS.

[cstreit]

Ive been following a bunch of these folks for a while:

Gone with the Wynns
Sailing LaVagabonde (I think this is least realistic, seems they're pretty loaded)
Ran Sailing
Sailing Papao
SV Delos (early days when they were a commune were interesting)
Sailing Uma
Sailing Zatara
Odd Life Crafting (this one has been great. These two could barely turn a wrench when they started, but beautifully restored a boat over a few years and learned a ton)
Onboard Lifestyle (New favorite. Good people and they guy does meticulous work and is a bit of a nerdy goober like myself)

I pay particular attention to a few things:

1. Most of these are about fixing stuff and dealing with issues. its clear this is a major part of the lifestyle. ...
2. Weather planning is important for enjoyment. I do like all the modern conveniences that help (Predict Wind, etc..)
3. Pre-planning is super important and being able to adapt (And still enjoy) when things don't work out as planned.

[dsfnctn]

Random charted we took in Bay of Islands New Zealand 2005 with my wifes parents.

I would charter . Maybe buy a laser and learn to sail now

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by dsfnctn

Random charted we took in Bay of Islands New Zealand 2005 with my wifes parents.

I would charter . Maybe buy a laser and learn to sail now

I've actually piloted a few ocean Hobie's and 22' monohulls (on large lakes) so I understand the basics of sailing close hauled, beam reach, downwind, tacking and jibing, etc.. I'm pretty sure if a captain died I could get back to land.

Now... Long distance navigation, understanding what to do when conditions aren't good, dealing with marinas, docking and tight maneuvars, anchoring, customs, flags, all that stuff I need to learn. (but at least I know that I don't know haha)


REally do appreciate the active discussion folks - its given me a lot to consider.

[dsfnctn]

Lets just start with your first Long distance navigation and since your thread start about cost
Garmin Puck GPS receiver $110.00? blue tooth to your I pad and a Navionics app ($149.00)
and boom world charting.
Weather routing is more important now that we can see where we are.
so pick your route where do you want to go. lets just imagine we want to go from San Francisco to Seattle?. Now get on windy.com and have a look at the coast and watch the weather for the next week. put that with the knowledge you picked up your small boat sailing and plug in the speed and angle of sail in respect to the wind direction, angle etc and boom instant arm chair weather router.
Checkout Jimmy Cornell World crusing routes. Boom someones already studied the comfortable cruising routes.
Now back to the trip from San Francisco to Seattle?
I will tell you from expearence thats goingto be tough no matter which way you look at it. I would suggest Trucking.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by dsfnctn

Lets just start with your first Long distance navigation and since your thread start about cost
Garmin Puck GPS receiver $110.00? blue tooth to your I pad and a Navionics app ($149.00)
and boom world charting.
Weather routing is more important now that we can see where we are.
so pick your route where do you want to go. lets just imagine we want to go from San Francisco to Seattle?. Now get on windy.com and have a look at the coast and watch the weather for the next week. put that with the knowledge you picked up your small boat sailing and plug in the speed and angle of sail in respect to the wind direction, angle etc and boom instant arm chair weather router.
Checkout Jimmy Cornell World crusing routes. Boom someones already studied the comfortable cruising routes.
Now back to the trip from San Francisco to Seattle?
I will tell you from expearence thats goingto be tough no matter which way you look at it. I would suggest Trucking.

Yes, consider trucking or hiring a crew to take it up there for you. Also consider the wear and tear of beating for 4 weeks or whatever it takes. You might be able make good distance at night while motoring and then ducking into a harbor during the day.

[cstreit]

I'm actually trying to escape the weather, not go looking for it lol.

Caribbean, SE coast, and Gulf sailing is more what I think I'm looking for initially. Maybe at some point head out further...

What I do find really geektastic is being able to use a tool like predict-wind to suggest a route - drop that into the nav - and then sent it to auto-pilot. Not sure I'd trust this any more than I would a self-driving car (not there yet mentally) but the idea is pretty nifty.

[pwd72s]

One suggestion for before you make that final leap...volunteer as crew for a length of time. A passage of a week or so without leaving the boat. Crewing for Stan on aa long passage cured my romantic thoughts about that. Days on end of seeing nothing but blue salt water can take a toll on you. The biggest high was watching land grow up out of the horizon...right where it was supposed to. That was pure joy!

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

One suggestion for before you make that final leap...volunteer as crew for a length of time. A passage of a week or so without leaving the boat. Crewing for Stan on aa long passage cured my romantic thoughts about that. Days on end of seeing nothing but blue salt water can take a toll on you. The biggest high was watching land grow up out of the horizon...right where it was supposed to. That was pure joy!

Great idea.

[908/930]

How far are you to any Yacht clubs near Chicago? People who race always need crew, most clubs have lists. If you have the time great way to get hrs on the water, try to get on a 27-35' boat, hopefully with somebody who can finish near the front. Possibly do the Chicago Mackinac race later in the year. The great lakes are pretty much small oceans, will get you trained for what to do when the wind picks up.

I just looked on Chicago Corinthian YC site and they have about 88 boats listed looking for crew.

[einreb]

Originally Posted by cstreit

Now... Long distance navigation, understanding what to do when conditions aren't good, dealing with marinas, docking and tight maneuvars, anchoring, customs, flags, all that stuff I need to learn. (but at least I know that I don't know haha)

There are a few different sailboat season membership/rental companies that operate out of Chicago on lake Michigan. All sorts of options, but lets just toss out $8k-10k range for a 5 month season of several days a week access and a few multi-day trips. They all typically offer/require some sort of training course for a nominal fee before they let you loose.

Edit: Example - https://www.pinnacleyachts.com/pricing-availability/

My suggestion is that we both take the training course and then you get the membership and I tag along a few times over the summer.

-Bernie

PS I tried to get this past the CFO last summer and she declined the request.