Liveaboard boat guys, what’s it really cost?

[911_Dude]

Originally Posted by stevej37

I know next to nothing about sailboats, but I used to know a guy (thru work) that lived in Tawas City on Lake Huron. He owned a 24? ft. sailboat with a strong engine.
He told me that every summer he would sail from Tawas to Phoenix and back. He would do that while his wife was working there to visit her.
I asked him if he went up the St Lawrence and around and he said no..that way takes too long.
He would go up thru Lake Huron and down Lake Michigan to Chicago. Take the river over to the Mississippi and down to the Gulf of Mexico. From there to the Panama Canal and then up the California Bay to some river that ends up near Phoenix.
He said he always took one person with him...he said it's not safe on the Mississippi alone.

I was tempted to volunteer as that person.

He also said that sometimes the wait at the Canal was days. There can be a log jam of small boats waiting to tag along with the big freighters. They only allow a couple with each ship.

That sounds like a salty tall tale indeed. Thats about 10,000 miles one way from Huron, to the Panama Canal, and up to the Sea of Cortez. Plus, I may be wrong, but Ive never heard of a navigable water way from the Baja area to Phoenix. That very thought of sailing into Phoenix is crazy. Regardless, in a 24' boat, on the move 24/7 that's at least a 3 month trip, one way. Tell your friend he owes you a drink. I respectfully call BS.



.

[VFR750]

Limited experience here, as we are already on a path to a “house on the water”. We are doing the math, and approaching a sailboat as a small summer cottage. Like a RV that floats.

Realistically we found the true cost of an older boat is in the refits. Especially in saltwater environments.

We figure the cost is going to be like a second mortgage.

Locally a mooring for a sailboat is $90 ft, and a slip is $135/ft plus $500-700 per season for power. Haul out is $40/ft and winter storage is another $68/ft. Yard work is about $150-200 an hour.

New sails ~2,500 each. New standing rigging $5000. (Stainless Steel corrosion is subtle and very destructive)

Then there is the gear. Dinghy, motor, clothing, PFDs, it all adds up.

Budgeting $10,000-20,000 a year for a 30-40’ sailboat is not unrealistic. I think a 40’ cat would be equal or more. This also assumes you are doing a lot of work to keep it in good shape.

You might consider buying a small starter boat; do you really like the life style? I have a 22’ sailboat and we learned a lot, but are out growing it. A 25-27’ boat might have been a better first start, especially since we are in coastal waters.

[stevej37]

^^^
911 Dude

I remember him saying the waterway only went part of the way to Phoenix. Had to take ground transport the rest of the way. The rest of it sounds doable.
At the time of his last trip he had a daily blog going during the trip with pics. I would check on it almost every day at work.
The sailboat may have been bigger...I'm just going by my memory.

He also said there was a by-pass waterway that eliminated taking a good share of the Mississippi. I don't remember the whereabouts of it...but I think it was on the east side of the River. (it didn't save any time he said..not sure why he always took it)

[john70t]

I've watched a few of the O'kellys videos to see what it's like. Their cat is fs. They do a breakdown of catamaran vs monohull and somewhat tally total costs for the year. YMMV. Monohulls rock constantly. Mooring and keeping a cat is much more expensive. Old boats are cheaper but there are a lot of hidden costs of course, and then a lot of retrofitting to your specs. With boats there's a lot of constant maintenance when not on the open empty water, where a lack of such could be uncomfortable or fatal. And then getting about whatever distant town you end up in seems like walking challenge, bicycle, or a lot of cabs.
I'd suggest researchinga lot more, marinas and what costs and restrictions, and watching the lifestyle. There are houseboat communities which is like a small trailer park on the water but better clientele. Living alone vs with others. It's not for everyone.



Another I haven't seen.

[hcoles]

I didn't see if it was mentioned above... how much ocean sailing experience do you have?
Have you been in rough seas for a few days going to weather? It's not that fun IMO.
There are a number of YouTube channels on this if you dig around.
A sailboat builder I respect said - Boats make terrible houses.
It also depends on where you are going to sail... West coast = cold and rough for the most part. Santa Barbara and south not bad.

[cstreit]

Thanks all. I’m subscribed to quite a few catamaran cruisers including the Wynns above.

My takeaway is that things are ALWAYS breaking. It’s constant maintenance. I don’t plan on ocean crossings nor do I need to be anywhere at any particular time. I can wait around weather windows for comfort.. I do plan on taking a year to go through it top to bottom and refitting it. Best way to learn all the systems. I built a performance race engine after reading a book, am very mechanically inclined, love to learn, etc.. so I’m pretty sure I can figure this out too.

That said, I’ve only sailed small boats and very little saltwater experience, all those things have to be learned before I would even consider buying. However where I need to start first is deciding on a goal before starting out. If it’s infeasible i need to adjust course early. My old man is a lifetime sailor so I have some help.

Then charter ( with captain ans crew) a few times and see if I like experience. If I do, then it’s time to do all the course work, get the experience, read and research.

Then and only then would I sign any paperwork.

…but if I cant afford it without stress, it’s all a non starter, hence this discussion.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by cstreit

The sailing bit is essential for me.



Check this out. Way more room and less heeling than a monohull

https://youtu.be/NmTgSXJNVrM

Understood.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by hcoles

I didn't see if it was mentioned above... how much ocean sailing experience do you have?
Have you been in rough seas for a few days going to weather? It's not that fun IMO.
There are a number of YouTube channels on this if you dig around.
A sailboat builder I respect said - Boats make terrible houses.
It also depends on where you are going to sail... West coast = cold and rough for the most part. Santa Barbara and south not bad.

Virtually none. …but neither does anyone until they learn right? I’m not just gonna buy something and figure it out. I’ve got 5-6 years to learn. Florida area would likely be home base.

I hear lots of cautionary tales from experience here. Reminds me a lot of conversations I have with people who want to go racing, “Whynwould you want to go burn a bunch of cash for 30 minutes of fun and 100 hours of misery?”

[VFR750]

We’ve all heard cautionary tales, and then still did what we want. You are on a path to figuring which boat to get, not if your getting a boat. 😁.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by VFR750

We’ve all heard cautionary tales, and then still did what we want. You are on a path to figuring which boat to get, not if your getting a boat. ��.

Thats probably true. In the end if its a 24' monohull that I just coastal sail florida for a bit - it will satisfy the urge.. ...but if I can do better, I'd like to.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by VFR750

We’ve all heard cautionary tales, and then still did what we want. You are on a path to figuring which boat to get, not if your getting a boat. 😁.

And if his wife gets seasick the first time she can't see land .... mebbe a divorce .

It happens...

Back in the 70s we used to go deep sea fishing 30-40 miles out every fall. One of my uncles was in the Navy during the Korean war, went a couple of times... no problem. Then he got seasick one year, and again the next.... 8 hours of puking each trip... but never again... he was done.

Eyes wide open... that is all.

Now go sailing

[VFR750]

My wife loves sailing. Even on the 22’. Keeper. And wants a bigger boat. +1.

But your point is valid: too small of a boat will scare some people and they will not have fun = solo sailer ever after.

Hence it is better to be closer to 27+ to avoid the bobbing cork syndrome. Little boats in big water get pushed around.

[beatnavy]

Originally Posted by KC911

And if his wife gets seasick the first time she can't see land .... mebbe a divorce .

There's an older guy who lives across the creek from us that used to keep a 30+ foot sailboat moored in the cove near our house. I got to talking to him last year and he said his dream was to sail the world. He and his wife made it as far as the Bahamas (from our area in the Chesapeake) and she said "I hate this!" He said "Ok" and reluctantly gave up on his dream and stopped sailing. Then they got divorced anyway a few years later. He says he should have dumped her in the Bahamas, kept going, and never looked back.

As my airline pilot friend and very experienced sailor says, you need to identify the "mission." What are you trying to do? Some boats are good liveaboards, some coastal or island cruisers, some blue-water sailing in the northern (or southern) latitudes, sone simple over-nighters, and others may be jack of all trades without doing any one thing well. There are always trade-offs.

My wife and I would like to try coastal cruising once our commitments here free up. Maybe up to Maine or down to the islands. I've watched several of those youtube channels and love the idea of doing some of that.

[gregpark]

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

That sounds like a salty tall tale indeed. Thats about 10,000 miles one way from Huron, to the Panama Canal, and up to the Sea of Cortez. Plus, I may be wrong, but Ive never heard of a navigable water way from the Baja area to Phoenix. That very thought of sailing into Phoenix is crazy. Regardless, in a 24' boat, on the move 24/7 that's at least a 3 month trip, one way. Tell your friend he owes you a drink. I respectfully call BS.



.

There are yachts in AZ

But these are about it. The only navigable river to Phoenix is the Colorado. Jet boat only

[stevej37]

^^^ Post #23

[gwood]

"A hole in the water, surrounded by wood and kept afloat by money."

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by cstreit

Thanks all. I’m subscribed to quite a few catamaran cruisers including the Wynns above.

My takeaway is that things are ALWAYS breaking. It’s constant maintenance. I don’t plan on ocean crossings nor do I need to be anywhere at any particular time. I can wait around weather windows for comfort.. I do plan on taking a year to go through it top to bottom and refitting it. Best way to learn all the systems. I built a performance race engine after reading a book, am very mechanically inclined, love to learn, etc.. so I’m pretty sure I can figure this out too.

That said, I’ve only sailed small boats and very little saltwater experience, all those things have to be learned before I would even consider buying. However where I need to start first is deciding on a goal before starting out. If it’s infeasible i need to adjust course early. My old man is a lifetime sailor so I have some help.

Then charter ( with captain ans crew) a few times and see if I like experience. If I do, then it’s time to do all the course work, get the experience, read and research.

Then and only then would I sign any paperwork.

…but if I cant afford it without stress, it’s all a non starter, hence this discussion.

I would skip (or amend) the chartering with captain and crew and skip straight to getting a bareboat accreditation (couple of different bodies offer these) then hop on a plane with your wife and bareboat charter down in the Caribbean. Sailing when someone else is doing the sailing is a very different experience than when you and your wife are handling the boat yourselves. Remember that this is unlikely to be a solo endeavor... You're not buying a car and going racing, you're buying a car and doing some time trials and your copilot had better be into it.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by cstreit

Virtually none. …but neither does anyone until they learn right? I’m not just gonna buy something and figure it out. I’ve got 5-6 years to learn. Florida area would likely be home base.

I hear lots of cautionary tales from experience here. Reminds me a lot of conversations I have with people who want to go racing, “Whynwould you want to go burn a bunch of cash for 30 minutes of fun and 100 hours of misery?”

Learning to sail and acquiring seamanship skills are easy if you have about 5 years of constantly sailing to get the practice and judgement needed. Sailing around Florida might be much more comfortable compared to the West Coast.
After sailboat racing for years (crew) I finally figured it wasn't comfortable but the owner went from a 27 footer to a 50 footer. The comfort is okay when I was 28, definitely not now. Boats are small and confining. The other thing to consider... as the boat gets bigger being able to handle things single handed becomes more difficult.
Other descriptions.. "Standing in a cold shower and tearing up 100 dollar bills." The salt water environment and pounding of the waves will eventually break every item on the boat.
Maybe start with a couple of years in a motor home.

[cstreit]

Remember I’m not planning this as a year ‘round thing but rather escaping snow. Yeah I could buy a place there instead, but I could also take up knitting.

And then there’s this guy who is trying to take a 16’ Hobie from Miami to a grand Bahamas island. https://youtu.be/VxZnQA3r78o

[911_Dude]

Id recommend getting a good quality mono in the 35'-40' range. That's big enough to have some comfort features, but not so expensive as to break the bank. You should be able to sail it yourself once proficient, and its big enough for safe coastal cruising. I dont know what your budget is, but older is cheaper. And if you look, you can find very well maintained older boats (pre 2000). Newer is not always better.