Should there be a driving age limit?
 

Or testing at 70 or 75...

I was at Home Depot, parked and walking in the parking lot saw two very elderly people, husband & wife, separated, looking for their car. I would guess 90s. I thought they'd find their car so kept walking into the store.

10 minutes later I'm out and see them still shuffling around aimlessly looking everywhere with some despair on their faces. I go over to the woman and ask if she's looking for her car and what kind is it. Honda Accord. Color? Grey. I look around and there's one 20 feet away in a handicap space out front. I ask her if that's it. She says no. I ask her for her keys and she gives them to me and I hit the lock/unlock button and the lights go on and off on the car.

We walk over to it, she calls to her husband, it's their car.

I could see them causing a serious accident to be honest.

I don’t know whether to praise you for finding their car and getting them on the road or curse you for finding their car and getting them on the road.

We pulled the keys from my mother-in-law and my mom and neither one liked it. Not so much my mother-in-law, and she like to sit at home watching Mannix, Perry Mason, etc. My mom still like to drive to get her hair done and go grocery shopping. She said she lost her independence. No doubt though, neither one needed to be driving, not only for their own safety but others.

I see people every day who shouldn't be driving and age is not a factor. I delivered a brief motoring safety talk this morning to open a meeting.

But yeah....we took the keys from my mom at one point. She wasn't super thrilled about that but she was always a happy person. Yes, I think perhaps testing should be invoked at some point but there are two problems with that, which are actually two facets of the same problem. It would be seen as more idiotic government regulation that we shouldn't have to pay for, and it would mean that Americans are not always totally free to do any damn thing they want. Something else to argue about, I guess.

It makes me mad when I think about how low the bar is set when it comes to issuing a license to a driver in this country.

If I was king of the world, drivers would be tiered depending on skill level, checked every couple of years. I live in Oregon, I just got my license last year, my next renewal is in 2029. That is absolutely ludicrous.
A master reset of the driving rules could probably thin the herd by 1/3 of people allowed on the roads, andthe rest should be required to demonstrate competency in order to move traffic smartly and efficiently, thereby negating the need to build more roads.

From their perspective, a fair lot of people that age don't want to drive but do it because they have nobody else to do it for them. That doesn't make it better but perhaps better understood.

On the flipside what’s the youngest somebody should be issued a drivers license? Our kids got theirs at 15 1/2 and they could drive by themselves, with state stipulations. Kind of scary.

I remember the first time my son drove my F150. We weren’t going that fast but when he made a turn one time, he did not realize the weight and physics of the truck. We made it, but it’s like he was thinking of a video game with no repercussions.

65?

Well, nobody better try taking my license away. I turn 80 soon, and don't have any problems associated with driving. I often wonder when that time will come though. I'm just lucky to have good balance, reactions, timing, and so on. I still thoroughly enjoy a fairly spirited drive in the local mountains, though I hardly ever drive above the speed limit anymore. Maybe I've been retired so long, I just feel like cruzin.

Definitely no age limit. And testing can be tricky, people will be nervous as hell and then fail for that. Are old people causing accidents really a big issue? The ones that should not be driving usually are driving very slowly and not going terribly far (won't see them on an interstate or highway where higher speeds may cause more trouble).

My expectation is that by the time I can't drive, there will be self driving cars. I also hope to move somewhere where I can walk most places. My plan will be to be more remote at first but when older move back into town.

My father surrendered his license in his late 80s. He had had a couple of fender benders and said,"This is it." I hope I have as much sense when the time comes.
One of my brothers drove commercially until his 80th birthday when his doctor told him after an annual check up, "Cancer: do what you want to do for the last year." So he drove across Canada.
Another brother stopped driving after his stroke and his wife took over the duties. It scared the heck out of us when we realized her ability to guide a motor vehicle wasn't too bad, but she had no idea where she was or where she was going. Sort of like the old folks in the parking lot in the first post.

I think an accident should trigger a review of one's license.

On the other hand, there was an elderly lady who was (in)famous in this area for her "service to the troops" during the war. Four decades ago, she had a battered Chevy Nova which bore testimony to her inability to accurately judge the relationship of her vehicle to its surroundings. One day while I was at the Motor Vehicles centre, I saw this poor old car parked in front of the Examiner's office and thought,"Finally, P... will lose her license and the roads will be a bit safer." How wrong I was. She walked out of that office with driving privileges intact and continues terrorizing the citizens of the area for another year or so until her final resting.

Best
Les

My dad says they should remove Reverse from cars after a certain age.

My grandfather drove just fine until he passed away at 92. I actually changed his oil two weeks before, had dinner at a restaurant on the Connecticut River and you would swear he was 72. Many like yourself Marv are fine driving well into very old age but definitely not everyone.

It's nice to see you still enjoy driving, I think it helps keep you young.

I think a test is in order rather than a set limit.

My 79 year old mom wouldn't pass the test. Last year she asked me if she should quit driving and I said yes. The rest of the weekend she kept asking me and I kept saying yes. Needless to say it was past time.

I remember hearing that Juan Manuel Fangio had his license revoked at 85 due to age limits when he could arguably still out drive 99.99% of the population.

I also remember reading a story about 70 something Paul Frere driving a first gen Viper in Europe in the rain at 120 with the top ripping off as the journalist in the passenger seat rode in amazement. So another older driver who could out drive the vast majority of younger drivers.

And go to any PCA DE and there are plenty of older faster drivers.

A fixed age by law would be rebellious. I have seen several young drivers that should not be driving.

My old boss took in his words "early retirement" at age 92. He was a licensed pilot and took his final flight as a pilot in command on his 92nd birthday. He was still driving at age 98, and could have beaten 95% of the population in any math test done all in your head with no paper or a calculator.

Age is indeed just a number, and it we institute a test for driving at some arbitrary age it should be taken by ALL drivers. I would bet the fail rate would be astonishing for all ages. Driving schools are a joke in this country.

Age is less of a factor than cognitive ability. We took my Mom's keys several years back after she hadn't driven all winter just as she was talking about going somewhere. She was well on her way to showing dementia symptoms in her late 70's. She still *****es about it occasionally, now 5-6 years later. She barely recognizes us now and can't remember what you told her 30 seconds ago but still thinks she could drive.

There are folks in her memory care place who can't be much older than me, I just turned 59. They are either early onset or head injury patients.

No but maybe a review every few years, my Dad at 92 is just fine driving and flying still.

Yes, but it should be my age plus 10, revised every year.

Pelican should have an age limit for posting. ;)

I agree with my esteemed colleague from the great state of Oregon. Here, in America, driving is viewed as an inalienable right. Despite the frequent reminders from agencies, police groups and courts, that driving is a privilege. In European countries, getting a driving license is a challenging process which includes proficiency testing which actually does test proficiency. And the process is also expensive.

Adopting that process here would reduce traffic congestion, accidents, injuries and deaths, and save money. Public transportation infrastructure, and ridership, would be increased. But the outcry about government over-reach and loss of freedoms would be deafening and several industries (auto manufacturers and oil companies to name two of the most obvious) would fan those flames. And so....it makes perfect sense but it also ain't gonna happen.

But yeah, I agree with herr_oberst. Testing should have nothing to do with age. All drivers should be tested regularly.

PS, I think a lot of current drivers would fail. It looks like nobody....and I mean NOBODY....seems to know that when making a left turn, drivers are required to use the "nearest or authorized lane." Everybody uses the NASCAR method of wide, sweeping turns across multiple lanes. This is but one of many dozens of driving rules that nobody seems to recall.

There are plenty of places where there is inadequate public transpo.

And, of course, these days that sort of move would be "racist." I believe one of the main arguments for requiring ID to vote is that poor blacks can't afford or manage to get an ID because they are too expensive or difficult to get. If you made a license expensive, I'm sure that would also be "racist."

Be careful with that one.

In FL the law is as you state, when turning right or left you have to turn into the nearest lane and then signal as usual to change lanes after you turn.

In TX the law is not the same. It's perfectly legal to turn into whatever lane you want as long as it can be done safely.

Agreed.

Both of my kids are in college now. Both wrecked their original vehicles, one each, to a point that we sold the cars to a breakers yard. I was mortified, mainly because I had put so much work into the cars to make them nice. The old lady, on the other hand, had the expectation the kids would wreck the cars and chalked it up to learning or whatever.

Both are now in Land Rover Discovery 2 from 2000. Nice and big and slow as a snail. It seems to have calmed them down a bit. Also my comments to both that if they F up again they will be walking may have put the fear of God in them (touch wood).

I was dumb struck at my wife's attitude toward this entire thing. I think the expectation from us should have been that no accident is permissible (edit: expected or acceptable as a matter of course). Sure we would work through it later but give them the notion that they needed to take care of their cars vice them being disposable.



As for licensing in this country: I had to test in Germany, albeit under the supervision of US Army Europe. The test is 2 part and not easy in the slightest. Part 1 is road signs and there are dozens of them. You could only miss a couple or you couldn't take the written test. The written test was pretty long as well and not a push over like what you get in the US.

Ditto for their annual vehicle safety inspections. They check suspension, ball joints for play, brakes with an actual device that shows load, and a bunch of other stuff. You ain't driving a POS over there.

My FIL is 88 and drives a F150 4 door. He will park that thing in the tightest of parking spaces. Drives every week to visit my MIL's grave an hour and half away in the country. His movement within the lane of travel is scary. Literally from lane line to lane line and doesn't bother him to drive right next to a semi on the interstate for a mile or so.

I don't think an arbitrary age is good but maybe re-tests. Problem is some folks are going to slip through just like they do here with our pitiful vehicle inspections.

What's a 'vehicle inspection'? :D

Ours has turned into a check of lights, wipers, and horn. Nothing else unless the State DOT sends out a notice like last year when they would drive your car a few feet in the parking lot to see if it had brakes.

Virginia on the other hand is a bit more serious. My 996 failed one year bc the reverse light switch was malfunctioning. PITA. Plus they do exhaust, tires, and a bunch of other stuff.

Definitely some kind of testing (mostly on awareness, no need to make them parallel park) after a certain age or a diagnosis of cognitive impairment... Walter Rohrl is 75 and he can drive me anytime... Maybe based on a report - though I can see that being used nefariously... Still would be nice if the OP could have reported his concern to someone and a test was requested by the DMV upon renewal. These folks end up driving into restaurants or mowing down people, and their families cannot always be trusted to take away the keys and take over...

^^^ Matthew
We have nothing, along with no emissions testing at all.

I think the state feels guilty because of the shape of our roads. Wouldn't be fair to inspect vehicles after having to drive through MI potholes.

No driving age limit either.

I saw a car yesterday on the highway going 65 MPH with the front and rear bumper covers gone, and twisted metal for the bumpers, the entire side of the car was smashed in. No doubt they have to get in from the passenger side to drive. But they were driving it. And we all know if the car looked like that, the rest of the suspension and brakes are in top shape right?

Oklahoma had a "inspection" for years. Mostly to check that the turn signals, headlight and brake lights worked, as well as the horn. They did not test the brakes or suspension. Many years ago one of the legislators managed to write a bill to eliminate the inspection. He stated on the floor that everyone now had new cars and it was not needed, and there was enough support to kill it. So now it is drive whatever. The cops can in theory pull over a unsafe looking car or one with lights not functioning. I bet they don't do that more than twice per year.

Here you need to renew your driver's license every two years after the age of 80. This is both a written and an on road test.

As I drive, I'm constantly scanning the vehicles around me. Anything with dents gets a wide berth and extra attention.

I also put a strong correlation between someone's vehicle condition and their life choices. To the point that I'll check out a prospective employee's vehicle when they come to interview. It's easy to tell which vehicles in our parking lot belong to security guards, janitors, general F'ups, and highly productive employees. Of course I'm a car guy so I might be prejudice.

While not EVERY kid is going to have an accident, I think the vast majority of them are. I think the issue is related mostly to a lack of experience. Could you get enough experience via more training, sure, but that would probably require at least hundreds of hours of real world experience in all sorts of traffic and environments, and I don't think many folks are prepared or capable of providing that sort of training.

And even then, once they are on their own or worse yet, with peers in their car, all bets are off and things are likely to change.

And if you change the driving age to something later than 16, maybe 18 or 20 or even 25, you're just pushing the time for folks to gain experience back to a later date. A 40 year old who has never driven may be just or nearly as dangerous as a 16 year old with no experience.

I started driving in 1972. In 1973 the mini skirt was at very distracting shortness, especially for a hormone filled high school kid boy. I was carefully studying the legs and backside of a hottie walking in front of the school. Of course the 25 MPH speed limit was in effect, and traffic was moving at legal speeds. I was really enjoying the spectacle of the co-ed in her miniskirt, and the car in front stopped. The rather underwhelming stopping power of a 1960 VW bug on bias ply recapped tires made my stopping in time impossible. It was totally my fault, and it is the only wreck I have ever had that was my fault. A lady did run into my 914 in 1979 but I was at a stop and had no where to go. I have not had any sort of wreck since. Well there was a suicidal California deer that tried to come through my windshield, but she just came out of nowhere.

Like maybe a minimum age of 55?...lol
To keep the whippersnappers out? :D

Something needs to be done but not sure what.

30 years ago I was a college kid and locked my keys in my car. Parents were out of town so I called my grandpa to come get me so I could retrieve a spare. On the way to get my keys, grandpa joe turned in to the one-way exit ramp of the expressway almost killing us. He brushed it off like it was nothing…..he also crapped his pants at the grocery store and laughed it off, so….

Now my mother is exhibiting similar behavior. The last time i drove with her at the wheel was 15 years ago and she blew threw a red light going 50 and laughed it off. She’s 100x worse now, though rarely ever drives

The final straw before I sold my motorcycles was a lady must have been 100 made a left in front of me at an intersection. I stared her in the eyes as I barely made it by her (her head a few centimeters above the wheel), she looked right through me like I was a ghost. Came within an inch of death

Another issue…not age related, is the medicated

I used to represent people appealing SSD claims, along with other injury type cases. The people would sit across the desk from me drooling and slurring from the pain meds, or Xanax or whatever they were prescribed. Then ide watch them stumble to their car and drive off. Terrifying. I just assume everyone around me on the road is wasted or has dementia

We don't need an age limit, we need a minimum skill level.

Until we have that, things will just get worse.
The idea that 'kids will get in wrecks, it's all part of the learning process" just makes me mad.

Put a dashcam and driver cam in the car for a week. All those kids with phones would fail on day one. The elderly would fail only when they are not competent any longer.

My pet peeve is all the people making a left turn, coming from my right, and want to cut through my lane at the intersection.

^^^ I've always wondered ...who would be ticketed if a driver pulled up to the line and the left turner cut the corner resulting in an accident. Doesn't the straight through driver have the right to that spot?

(meaning the straight through driver arrives last and hits the 'cutting corner' car in the drivers side.)

Many individuals their generation don't want to drive, but they must because when they have no one else to do it for them. That just doesn't make it better, but it does make it more understandable.

I'd say the 40 year old with no driving experience would be worse.

I was the Drug Testing Coordinator on a large ($3 billion) construction program. A drug test was failed if a worker tested positive and could not produce a valid prescription. More significantly, a drug test was passed if the worker tested positive and could produce a valid prescription. And so....I could not stop workers from operating cranes while under the influence of oxycodone, and I could not share their positive test information with their employer.