Lake Powell down down down

[flatbutt]

https://www.khou.com/article/news/regional/scorched-earth/lake-powell-shortage-water-satellite-images/75-c5fba7ff-5eb8-41ac-bc52-293dc5ab10d3

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/30/us/west-drought-lake-powell-hydropower-or-water-climate/index.html


Wow this has gotten scary. The Glen Canyon dam could shut down!

[hcoles]

Why don't we hear of plans to build new reservoirs?

[masraum]

I saw this article the other day.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/officials-will-release-less-water-into-lake-mead-because-of-drought-180980030/

The United States Bureau of Reclamation announced this week it will hold back about 480,000 acre-feet of water in Lake Powell instead of releasing it into Lake Mead—the nation’s largest human-made reservoir that supplies water to about 25 million people. Additionally, about 500,000 acre-feet of water be released into Lake Powell from Flaming Gorge Reservoir, which is approximately 455 river miles upstream, per the statement.

“We have never taken this step before in the Colorado River basin,” Tanya Trujillo, an Interior Department assistant secretary, said in a press conference, per Reuters' Daniel Trotta. “But the conditions we see today, and the potential risks we see on the horizon, demand that we take prompt action.”

Lake Mead and Lake Powell are part of a system that provides water to more than 40 million people, and water levels in both lakes have dropped to historic lows as the West experiences the most severe megadrought in 1,200 years. Climate change is at least partially responsible, according to a study in Nature Climate Change.

At 3,522 feet, Lake Powell’s water surface elevation is at its lowest point since it was first filled in the 1960s, per a statement. Officials say the lowest level at which Glen Canyon Dam can still generate hydropower is 3,490 feet.

Lake Mead’s water level was at 1,055 feet on April 4, and at 950 feet, the dam’s turbines will cease to run, report Brittany Peterson and Felicia Fonseca for the Associated Press.

In August 2021, the government issued a water shortage declaration for Lake Mead, reducing Southern Nevada’s water allocation by 7 billion gallons in 2022. Earlier this week, an intake valve became exposed for the first time in the lake, rendering it unable to draw water. Intake valves help transport the water from the lake to water treatment plants.

“We’re knocking on the door of judgment day – judgment day being when we don’t have any water to give anybody,” Bryan Hill, who runs the public power utility in Page, Arizona, tells CNN’s René Marsh.

The megadrought, which began in 2000, will likely persist until at least 2030.

“This is a temporary, temporary action that helps significantly and can make a difference, but it is not the long-term solution,” Gene Shawcroft, Utah’s commissioner on the Upper Colorado River Commission, tells the Deseret News’ Amy Joi O'Donoghue. “We know we have a lot of work to do. We have all got to change our minds on how we deal with water.”

Earlier this week, the low water levels in Lake Mead led to the discovery of the body of a man in a barrel who was likely shot in the 1980s. Officials say more human remains will likely be unearthed as water levels continue to drop.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

They need to fill the lake back up with desalinated water.
From which direction for the source is the engineering question.

[vash]

or shut down the pirate show at Treasure Island.

i know a tunnel crew that bored beneath Lake Mead and came up the deepest spot with a bathtub drain. i think it was to keep Vegas wet. they can now drain the lake.

[KNS]

The concerning part, as mentioned in the article, is that the water will fall to below levels to run the turbines - to generate electricity.

If the levels in Lake Powell and Lake Mead continue to drop they hit "Dead Pool", water no longer flows though the dams but sits stagnant. No water reaches farmers or cities.

There are some estimates that could happen in next two to five years.

[KNS]

There's a B-29 at the bottom of Lake Mead, I wonder how many years before it re-appears.

[dlockhart]

I enjoy the desert and exploring, but it is a desert, and not particularly friendly to life.




Sam called it




.

[IROC]

I brought this up in another thread, but one solution I have seen floated (pun not intended) is for the creation of a national water grid. Basically a system of pipelines to move water around. It sounds technically daunting, but evidently it's not. And...the cost would not be prohibitive. The problem is primarily political.

The west is drying out and the east is getting more wet. They just raised our local "average rainfall" by 4" per year as it has been increasingly more and more wet here. The last few years, we have ended the calendar year sometimes 10+ inches of rain above normal. 60+ inches of rain per year is not uncommon here anymore. In 2020, our official total was 70.36". You guys out west are welcome to some of this.

[Tervuren]

I think it'd be more efficient to relocate people than setup such an infrastructure between the east and west. Elevation would mean a lot of upwards pumping to get the water from east to west.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by IROC

I brought this up in another thread, but one solution I have seen floated (pun not intended) is for the creation of a national water grid. Basically a system of pipelines to move water around. It sounds technically daunting, but evidently it's not. And...the cost would not be prohibitive. The problem is primarily political.

The west is drying out and the east is getting more wet. They just raised our local "average rainfall" by 4" per year as it has been increasingly more and more wet here. The last few years, we have ended the calendar year sometimes 10+ inches of rain above normal. 60+ inches of rain per year is not uncommon here anymore. In 2020, our official total was 70.36". You guys out west are welcome to some of this.

THIS!! All of the right of ways have been purchased and cleared.. Would be relatively easy to set this up via the Interstates.. .. continuously pump excess water from the Great Lakes, the Mississippi or others.. Why some politicians haven't latched on to this idea is beyond me .. seems logical

[vash]

Originally Posted by IROC

I brought this up in another thread, but one solution I have seen floated (pun not intended) is for the creation of a national water grid. Basically a system of pipelines to move water around. It sounds technically daunting, but evidently it's not. And...the cost would not be prohibitive. The problem is primarily political.

The west is drying out and the east is getting more wet. They just raised our local "average rainfall" by 4" per year as it has been increasingly more and more wet here. The last few years, we have ended the calendar year sometimes 10+ inches of rain above normal. 60+ inches of rain per year is not uncommon here anymore. In 2020, our official total was 70.36". You guys out west are welcome to some of this.

I like this. I agree it would be relative easy to pipe water around the country. you all out east can send us messages in bottles.

[2.7RS]

The problem is too many humans.

How do we fix this?

1960 world population was half of today's.

Do we start another thread?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by IROC

I brought this up in another thread, but one solution I have seen floated (pun not intended) is for the creation of a national water grid. Basically a system of pipelines to move water around. It sounds technically daunting, but evidently it's not. And...the cost would not be prohibitive. The problem is primarily political.

The west is drying out and the east is getting more wet. They just raised our local "average rainfall" by 4" per year as it has been increasingly more and more wet here. The last few years, we have ended the calendar year sometimes 10+ inches of rain above normal. 60+ inches of rain per year is not uncommon here anymore. In 2020, our official total was 70.36". You guys out west are welcome to some of this.

This is absolutely the solution and they had better do it fast. I did not know that anyone is seriously discussing it but I have been talking random people for years that we need a pipeline from places that flood and get too much rain to the places that are too dry. Population trends for decades have been shifting to the desert Southwest of the U.S., (Vegas, Phoenix, etc.), and lack of water will be the number one problem.

My idea was for some huge pipelines and huge reservoirs on both ends. If done right, it could solve two problems at once and be a huge infrastructure project as well, creating a bunch of good paying jobs. It could prevent floods in places like Texas and Louisiana if they had a reservoir system with automatic release valves that opened when the water reached a certain level and dumped it into the pipeline system, (which admittedly would have to be huge), sending all of the excess water into the reservoirs in AZ., NV. and CA. Even if it could not completely end flooding, it would make it less severe and drain the flooded areas quicker. The desert SW would get billions of gallons of fresh water.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

I think it'd be more efficient to relocate people than setup such an infrastructure between the east and west. Elevation would mean a lot of upwards pumping to get the water from east to west.

Southern AZ. and Southern CA along the coast are close to sea level, (Phoenix is 1000' above. The pipeline would have to stay south but it's doable.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by speeder

Southern AZ. and Southern CA along the coast are close to sea level, (Phoenix is 1000' above. The pipeline would have to stay south but it's doable.

Not really all the energy required to lift the water could be re-captured on the way back down. Only issue would be heating the pipes in some areas in winter..

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 2.7RS

The problem is too many humans.

How do we fix this?

1960 world population was half of today's.

Do we start another thread?

You are 100% correct and I've also been wondering out loud why politicians and other leaders are afraid to even mention that elephant in the room. It's behind the causes of most but not all ills in the world at present. The main problem is that the increase is driven by 3rd world countries and there is no politically correct way to tell them to invest in rubbers while telling European countries to have more kids, (they have a negative birth rate in some cases).

The dirty secret is that economic growth, which requires an ever expanding pool of consumers or the increased affluence of existing consumers and fixing the environment are not compatible. That's what no one wants to say out loud but every smart person on earth understands.

And yeah, that's another thread.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by vash

I like this. I agree it would be relative easy to pipe water around the country. you all out east can send us messages in bottles.

Or someone could urinate in Minnesota and say he's pissing on CA !!

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Not really all the energy required to lift the water could be re-captured on the way back down. Only issue would be heating the pipes in some areas in winter..

Bury them in freezing areas. You only have to go 3' down. And there would inevitably be occasional pipeline fractures that needed repair but it's only water....not like an oil spill.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by hcoles

Why don't we hear of plans to build new reservoirs?

Because California is run by a bunch of profiteering asshats.

50 years since they built any storage.

Epic mismanagement of the resources available.

Pumping water from the East would be an epic infrastructure program that will never happen. All the energy to pump water up could not be recovered as it comes down the other side, because of the laws of thermodynamics