Pay at the pump for gasoline?

[GH85Carrera]

OK, no politics and we all know gas prices are insane. That is not what this thread is about.

For the last 30+ years or so I have just swiped my card at the pump, and filled my tank.
Never a problem doing that and I don't have to go inside, and stand in line to pay for gas.

Yesterday I stopped at large gas station, a Phillips 66 with 20 or more pumps. Insert card, my CREDIT card, not a debit card. It reads the chip, and asks for my zip code. I punch in that, and then is asks for my pin. WTF, full stop. I pulled out my credit card, said cancel and drove to another gas station and filled up as normal.

No way no how am I giving a gas station, and Phillips 66 the pin to my credit card. I do know it, and it gives me access to cash at an ATM. I don't think I have gotten a cash advance from a credit card in 40 years. I have a debit card for that.

Anyway my real question, do you ever have to enter a pin after the zip code for a CREDIT card purchase? I have run mega thousands of dollars through my account in the long years I have had it. Never before has any vendor asked for my pin for a credit card purchase.

I have purchased items in 45+ states and in foreign countries. On line and in person. No one has ever asked for my pin. Is this new or just something funny?

[Mike Andrew]

It just happened to my buddy on our way home from Canada, somewhere in ND. Asked me if I had ever had to provide a PIN. He did provide his and we proceeded down the road.

Likely some new attempt to thwart the scum that lives off of CC fraud (and should be hung by the testes).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

OK, no politics and we all know gas prices are insane. That is not what this thread is about.

For the last 30+ years or so I have just swiped my card at the pump, and filled my tank.
Never a problem doing that and I don't have to go inside, and stand in line to pay for gas.

Yesterday I stopped at large gas station, a Phillips 66 with 20 or more pumps. Insert card, my CREDIT card, not a debit card. It reads the chip, and asks for my zip code. I punch in that, and then is asks for my pin. WTF, full stop. I pulled out my credit card, said cancel and drove to another gas station and filled up as normal.

No way no how am I giving a gas station, and Phillips 66 the pin to my credit card. I do know it, and it gives me access to cash at an ATM. I don't think I have gotten a cash advance from a credit card in 40 years. I have a debit card for that.

Anyway my real question, do you ever have to enter a pin after the zip code for a CREDIT card purchase? I have run mega thousands of dollars through my account in the long years I have had it. Never before has any vendor asked for my pin for a credit card purchase.

I have purchased items in 45+ states and in foreign countries. On line and in person. No one has ever asked for my pin. Is this new or just something funny?

If it's a card with a chip, then there should be a PIN that goes with it. In EU, I believe they've been using the PIN for years. The requirement for the PIN is added security, like two factor authentication for websites.

IE, your card gets stolen, but then the thief can't use your card if they don't have the PIN.

Everything that I've heard for the chip based cards is that we are behind Europe in security for credit cards. It sounds like you found a station that's catching up and you don't like the extra security.

Of course, skimmers negate the added security of a PIN, much like the whole zip code thing.

[Noah930]

How do we know there wasn't a skimmer on the pump?

[Sooner or later]

Never has happened to me.

Last Thursday I was notified by Chase of a fraudulent purchase attempt with my card. Card now canceled. New card on the way. I don't know how bad it is going to be, currently only about $50.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Noah930

How do we know there wasn't a skimmer on the pump?

There could have been a skimmer. One thing to remember, from my understanding of skimmers is that they do not add to the process performed by the pump/ATM. They are passive scanners/watchers.

IE, the pump can ask for your name, rank, and SSN. When a skimmer is added, the pump will still ONLY ask for name, rank, and SSN. The skimmer only scans the card as it's inserted, and watches for any buttons that are pressed. The skimmer (unless something has changed) cannot/does not request more info.

[masraum]

https://yourmileagemayvary.net/2021/06/10/ive-never-had-to-do-this-when-paying-with-a-credit-card-in-the-us-before/

https://moneytips.com/chip-and-signature-chip-and-pin-emv-cards/

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

[ckissick]

I've had to do that everywhere I fill up for the past year, in the SF Bay Area. But there's always an option to bypass the PIN if it's a credit card.

[masraum]

It sounds like I'm going to have to find out what the PIN is on our CCs. It'll be irritating to run into this and not know.

[911boost]

It is still just the zip code here with a credit card.

There is one gas station though that both times I have used my CC there the bank has flagged the transactions and put my card on hold. Odd, so I just do not get gas there if I can help it (it is the mouth of a canyon and the only gas until Laramie, WY).

[HobieMarty]

Yeah, I have never had to enter a PIN when paying at the pump.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[GH85Carrera]

My card company will text me if they think it might be iffy. If I text back OK, it will go through on unusual purchases. One gas station in the boonies once had a business name that was something the owner thought was funny. I don't remember what it was, but I texted back OK, and it went through.

I will not give out my PIN for a purchase. The card of course has the security chip.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Noah930

How do we know there wasn't a skimmer on the pump?

My thought as well..

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

My card company will text me if they think it might be iffy. If I text back OK, it will go through on unusual purchases. One gas station in the boonies once had a business name that was something the owner thought was funny. I don't remember what it was, but I texted back OK, and it went through.

I will not give out my PIN for a purchase. The card of course has the security chip.

You may have to start. Keep in mind these are called "chip and PIN" cards and the PIN is there for a reason. It's intended to be used during a purchase to make them more secure. If you get a PIN, and never use it, then what's the point? I believe the issue is that the US cc infrastructure wasn't setup to use it, and there was a (many year) grace period where the PIN wasn't required. I'm guessing the end of that grace period is either ending, or some of the companies have decided that the upgrade is less costly than issues from fraudulent charges.

[pete3799]

It used to be I had to enter my zip (never been asked for a pin).
Lately i just push the card in and no zip required.
For the record i don't even know if i have a pin#. Have had the same card (account) since 1984.
Never have used an ATM or gotten a cash advance.

[techman1]

And regarding gas pump skimmers,
Why do you use a credit card there?

One of the most frequently scammed places.

This is why I have two gas cards, mostly use the shell card.
If it is skimmed, it can't be used to purchase a $2000 computer from Amazon.

[masraum]

https://yourmileagemayvary.net/2021/06/10/ive-never-had-to-do-this-when-paying-with-a-credit-card-in-the-us-before/

If there’s one place where the United States has lagged the rest of the world, it’s in credit card security. While most of the world has moved on to wireless technology using a tap-to-pay format, the US credit card terminals have only recently been updated to accept chip payments instead of a swipe.

The only reason that merchants have moved from a swipe to chip technology is because of banking regulations that have shifted the burden of fraudulent transactions to the merchant if they don’t offer up-to-date technology at the point of sale. That means the store and not the bank is on the hook if a payment is made with a phony card.

I’ve noticed that many gas stations have recently updated their pumps to accept chip cards. That’s because they were the last place required to do so, in October 2020. While this means I have to deal with an annoying commercial while pumping my gas, I also have to leave my card inserted to read the chip before removing it.

That is, until today when something happened that has never happened to me before in the U.S.
I was asked to enter my PIN for my credit card at the pump.

I used a Chip+PIN card at a gas station in the US. Welcome to the 2000s.

https://moneytips.com/chip-and-signature-chip-and-pin-emv-cards/

lmost every credit card issued in the U.S. is equipped with EMV® technology. If you need an EMV® card with Chip-and-PIN capability in particular, check out our list of card issuers that offer Chip-and-PIN cards.
What Is EMV® Technology?

EMV® is a security standard for storing account information on credit cards. It’s an alternative to the magnetic stripe (mag stripe) that has traditionally been used to store information on the backs of cards in the United States.

EMV® stands for “Europay, Mastercard, and Visa,” the three companies who began this initiative. It’s a more secure way to store information, providing better protection against some forms of credit card fraud than the older mag stripe, because it can’t be as easily “skimmed” by fake credit card readers.

There are two main types of EMV® credit card technology: Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. The signature function requires a signature to verify transactions, just like credit cards traditionally have in the past. The PIN function requires a four-digit PIN, just like a debit card.

Today, every chip credit card you get in the U.S. will use Chip-and-Signature technology, in addition to having a magnetic stripe on the back. Some cards also include the Chip-and-PIN function, so they’re more compatible overseas and more secure in the U.S.

There’s much more to EMV® technology. But in most cases, especially if you’ll just be using your card in the U.S., you don’t need to worry about anything other than how to make purchases with your EMV® card.

If you’re planning to travel outside the U.S., in Canada or Europe, you should probably have a Chip-and-PIN credit card. Although many payment terminals will accept Chip-and-Signature, in some cases you might need a PIN card, like at unattended kiosks and train ticket machines. Be sure to get one that has no foreign transaction fees as well, so you don’t have to pay extra for every purchase.
All About EMV® Chip Cards
How do EMV® chip cards work?

When you make a purchase with a credit card, the terminal needs to verify that you’re the one who’s actually using the card.

This verification is usually done with a signature in the U.S., and sometimes with a PIN in other countries. The merchant may waive the verification requirement, especially for small purchases.

The chip and the terminal work together to create a unique, encrypted code, called a token or cryptogram. This token is unique to the specific transaction taking place, and will only be used that one time. This number is created from information in the chip combined with information in the terminal, but using instructions contained only in the chip.

This is a dynamic number, meaning it will be different for every transaction. It’s useless outside of that one transaction, and if anyone were able to copy it he or she wouldn’t be able to use it to make purchases with the card.

That’s in contrast to the static information contained in a mag stripe, which is always there on your card and able to be copied.

Next, this token needs to be decoded to verify that it came from your card’s chip. To do this, it will either be sent to the card issuer over the internet (known as online verification) or it will be verified within the terminal itself (known as offline verification).

Transactions with offline verification will be processed more quickly because they don’t require the online check.

After the token is verified, and the system determines that you have enough available credit on your card, the purchase will be approved.
What’s the difference between chip-and-signature and chip-and-pin?

Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN are two different Card Verification Modes (CVMs). CVMs are used when making purchases with credit cards, to verify that the real account holder is using the card and not a fraudster.

Simply put, signature cards will require a signature to verify the transaction, while PIN cards will require a PIN.

The PIN verification mode is more secure than the signature verification mode, of course. Anyone could forge a signature, and most cashiers never even check to see if your signature matches the one on your card. A PIN can’t be so easily duplicated.
Can a card be both chip-and-signature and chip-and-pin?

Yes, a credit card can have both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN capability. Most cards issued in the U.S. are Chip-and-Signature, while some also have PIN functionality (and some cards still only have mag stripes). The credit card issuer determines the features of the card.

If a card has both signature and PIN capability, it will be set to prefer either one or the other. This is called “signature-preferred” or “signature-priority” in the first case, and “PIN-preferred” or “PIN-priority” in the second.

Most cards that have both functions are signature-priority. But a few are PIN-priority, like the Diners Club cards, some cards from credit unions like UNFCU and First Tech Federal Credit Union, and some store cards like the Target REDCard. In some cases you can set the priority yourself.

People generally prefer PIN-priority cards when traveling outside the U.S. because that’s the norm for most merchants. Some merchants in other countries are less familiar with the signature verification method, and transactions could end up taking much longer.

You can still typically get by in other countries with signature-priority cards, because most point-of-sale terminals can process either signature or PIN verification modes. But in some cases you might have a hard time using unattended self-checkout terminals and kiosks, which might not accept signatures.

When you make a purchase with your chip card by inserting or dipping it into the terminal, it will tell you the verification method required. You can then just follow the instructions it provides.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit-cards/chip-and-pin-credit-cards/

Chip and PIN cards were developed as a way to reduce point-of-sale credit card number theft and skimming cybercrimes. And, as of Oct. 2015, all U.S. merchants were mandated to accept EMV cards or face potential liability for any credit card fraud originating at their establishment.

But, how do chip and pin credit cards work exactly? Instead of using the magnetic stripe on the side you once used to make a purchase, chip and PIN credit cards have a small metallic chip on the front that holds your payment data. This metallic chip is designed to reduce fraud, and it does so by providing a unique code for each purchase you make. Because the security code is unique for every purchase, it’s significantly more difficult for a thief to use your card for the purpose of fraud.

A credit card PIN—also known as your personal identification number—is a four-digit code you can use to verify you are the person making a purchase with your chip and PIN credit card. You can pick your own PIN when you sign up for a chip and pin credit card, and you can also change your PIN at any time.

With a unique PIN that nobody but you knows, your transactions should be even less susceptible to fraud. After all, it’s fairly easy to forge a signature and walk away with merchandise at a payment terminal, yet hackers and thieves will have a difficult time guessing a four-digit code. Your chip credit card might not automatically come with a pin.

Most credit cards with chip technology issued in the U.S. are considered “chip and signature” cards. This type of credit card comes with the added fraud protection of chip technology, yet you’ll be asked to provide a signature instead of a PIN when you use your card for purchases.

Some credit card issuers offer PIN capacity as well, meaning you can add a PIN to your card that doesn’t already have one. But if you want this added layer of protection, it’s up to you to call your card issuer to inquire.

Chip and PIN credit cards are significantly safer to use than their outdated magnetic stripe counterparts. This is due to the unique, encrypted code that is generated each time you initiate a transaction. This code allows your actual credit card number to remain concealed and makes any data derived from thieves during a transaction absolutely useless.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by pete3799

It used to be I had to enter my zip (never been asked for a pin).
Lately i just push the card in and no zip required.
For the record i don't even know if i have a pin#. Have had the same card (account) since 1984.
Never have used an ATM or gotten a cash advance.

I don't think you've had the same card since 1984. I suspect you get new cards every 3-5 years, and at some point, your new cards started including a chip in the card.

You may have received a PIN when you got the card, or you may have been directed to go to a website to create a PIN. I can't remember if I've got one or need to create one myself because it has never been required, but it sounds like that time is coming.

A PIN to get cash and a PIN for "EMV" or "Chip and PIN" may be the same digits, but are actually for different purposes, and in some cards they could be different (probably usually the same).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by techman1

And regarding gas pump skimmers,
Why do you use a credit card there?

One of the most frequently scammed places.

This is why I have two gas cards, mostly use the shell card.
If it is skimmed, it can't be used to purchase a $2000 computer from Amazon.

And the skimmer has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being asked for a PIN. The PIN request is all from the pump.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

My thought as well..

2 things

1 the skimmer can't cause the pump to ask for extra information.
2 if there was a skimmer, it's irrelevant to this issue. Having a skimmer would have been equally bad whether he was asked for a PIN or not.