Do we let him commit suicide with sugar?

[unclebilly]

My dad refuses to control his sugars because in his opinion, his diabetes isn’t a problem. He refuses to take his meds, refuses to check his sugars, and refuses to take his insulin unless I am there forcing it. He insists on eating sweets like chocolate bars, donuts, ice cream, lemon meringue pie, etc.

He drinks fruit juice, pop etc.

When I arrived at his place the 2 weeks ago, I convinced him to check his sugars (he insisted they were fine). They were 20.9.

He insists that 14-20 is normal for him and no problem.

So here is where we are at… he lost his drivers license for not controlling his sugars and onset dimentia. The high sugar levels over the past 5 months have really taken a toll on his mental abilities. He sleeps 3/4 of the day.

Over the past 2 weeks, I’ve worked hard and got his sugars into the normal range (if he takes his insulin and I’m a bad guy and won’t let him have chocolate bars etc). His doctor won’t force him into an assisted living facility and I can’t force him either. I also have a job, a young family, a farm and a business to run - I can’t keep baby sitting him. He also live 700 miles away.

He is with us in Calgary now but wants to go home. At home, he will just turn off the home support again and go back to where we were at 2 weeks ago. I fear he will slip into another diabetic coma and wind up dead in 3-6 months if he just take him home.

What to do? Give in to his wishes and let him commit suicide with sugar or intervene and preserve his life at the cost of his freedoms?

I can see this from both perspectives and have no idea what the right approach is. We have tried to reason with him, the Dr tried, he is stubborn and has onset dementia so there is no convincing him to willingly go into assisted living.

I know some of you have lived this - how can I learn from your experiences or what you wished you had done?

[Por_sha911]

Have you considered having a psych exam to have him declared incompetent (depending on the laws where he lives)?

[masraum]

My thoughts are with you and your family. I can't imagine being in the position that you are in now. Good luck.

[Baz]

Hello Billy - first - I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Taking care of an elderly parent in many cases is a job not for the faint of heart!

I hope you will get some good advice here.

My only thought is to seek assistance in this matter from your local 'Council on Aging'.

I'm sure they have access to many resources that might be helpful.

Good luck and God Bless!

[LWJ]

That is awful. I am cleaning up the estate of my buddy who didn’t control his diabetes currently.

Given the fatal nature of this, I advocate as strong a hand as you can play.

Nothing but good thoughts you. This sucks for you. Be strong.

[Noah930]

What happens when you confront him on the long term dangers of poor diabetic compliance? He just brushes off your concern?

Diabetes is a problem because you feel fine, until you're not. That's why your dad (and many other diabetics) ignore their condition until permanent damage has been done. You usually don't die of diabetes, but rather a complication of it. One problem is that your body is now a lot older physiologically than it is chronologically. So you're 60 going on 80, or 80 going on 95. So it's much harder to bounce back from things. And it's mot just death itself, but the unpleasant manner in which people struggle towards their ends. I think of those diabetic amputations; first a toe, then half a foot, and then at the knee. It's a lot of suffering.

Ask him if he wants to see his grandkids, or if there's something else he wants to do longish term. Give him a reason to take his health more seriously.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

He insists on eating sweets like chocolate bars, donuts, ice cream, lemon meringue pie, etc.

Wow, reading that has set my little heart racing. I know exactly where he is coming from.

Umm, hard to explain to him that this sort of diet will kill him. And with us sugar addicts, moderation doesn't work. When I get an insatiable craving for sugar I have this malt stuff, Maltexo, which is a more complex carbohydrate/sugar so that feels like I'm getting my sugar. But not nearly as bad.

You guys will have something like it. And good luck.

[drcoastline]

Hi Billy, my thoughts are with you, this is a very difficult decision, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't think there is a correct answer.

I think if it were me and I say that because if put in the decision I may react differently, I would let him do his thing. I think it is much like dealing with an alcoholic or drug addict. You can help and be supportive, but you can't make them change, only they can change themselves.

Your true obligations and commitment are to your family. It is clear you are willing to do what is necessary to help your father but if he isn't willing to help himself and in fact pushing you away, then it isn't fair for your family to suffer.

[svandamme]

Sucks but at some point , how old is your dad.
perhaps he has decided he's not going for the super high age because of other reasons?

for instance in my family we all go senile at 80, by 90 we are completely gone in the head.
I for one wanna be healthy as possible til labout 75 and ideally drop dead from a coronary or a full on absolute killer stroke.

if your dad is otherwise coherent, I think at some point you have to respect his choice, no matter how hard

[fastfredracing]

Billy, I am sorry you are going through this. It is maddening, This is my wife to a T. She just had a heart attack and a stroke because of her non action to take care of her health issues, and now that she is recovering , she refuses to make any of the right choices .
The only time she will take any of her meds, is when I force them on her, and the only time she will eat healthy food is when I prepare it and force the issue. Even then, she will have a light portion, and then shove cookies in her face after the meal
I have come to accept the fact that my wife will not be with me for long, and there is really nothing I can do about it.
I beg, plead, and try to talk with her daily , I ask her to try to imagine her 5 year old son being raised without her .
It must run in the family, her father went out the same way .
I cannot commit her and no one can force her to live right, She chooses ice cream, cookies, pasta, and sweet tea , over her life, and her families well being. It is what it is

[jhynesrockmtn]

Sorry for your situation. I'm a type 1 diabetic and managing the disease is complex and a pain in the rear. It sounds like he's decided, for whatever reason, not to. I can't imagine trying to do it solo while not 100% there mentally.

I agree with svandamme. As hard as it is to watch, you'll likely just have to respect his decisions unless he is really not competent.

My Mom is almost 86 and quite far down the road with dementia. Luckily she went into assisted living several years back and "graduated" to memory care recently. If he won't move to a place to get more help, not much you can do to improve his health.

[rockfan4]

If you're looking at a assisted living facility vs a nursing home, make sure they have nursing staff available 24x7.

My mother was in a similar state as your father, type 2 diabetic, and having memory issues. We tried a assisted living facility with memory care, but with only one licensed nurse on staff during the day, they couldn't adequately administer insulin to her. The nurse would make a best guess at how much to give, and draw up doses for off hours. This didn't work at all, and she ended up having frequent falls, followed by trips to the hospital. I think we let that happen twice before we pulled her out of that place and moved her to a nursing home.

[vash]

sorry for the situation.

my wife works as a nurse for APS, now. she hears stories like this everyday. i think people are just done at a certain point. done.

best of luck. i was tempted to read this thread to my wife, but i think she has a home visit this morning, and they sometimes beat her down.

[asphaltgambler]

I feel for you unclebilly - I really do as I've seen the situation; just a different drug of choice - cigarettes. It is all the same - addictions, just whatever you choose to put in your pie-hole, snort or pill(s).

I cannot think of anything that can be more frustrating than seeing someone you love, willingly do this day-in day-out and all the while know exactly the consequences. Also further you mentioned he has the beginning of Dementia. So now there's an extra layer of sensible reasoning - starting to go out the window.

The only thing when you sit down and calmly speak to him, if he will listen. If you cannot connect his obsession with sugar to something he has lost or grieved in his past as to why, then tell him you love him too much to let this happen. You love him more than he loves himself at the moment. Possibly this may work, other then the next step is removing all those items from his cupboard - then policing the kitchen.

[svandamme]

The medical world is soo good at keeping the body alive, but they cannot make it enjoyable once you are in the zone past what you would have lived without critical interventions.

I have my aunt who is 85, she had a stroke 5 years ago and came out ok,
now has alzheimers, a terrible decline ahead of her.

She's not competent anymore, on the border of what is still possible to leave living at her home.. I would wish her the dignity of dying in her own home, sparing her the indignity to be told by everybody 'you can't live in your home anymore, you have to go into a home and there live by their rules and routine." It's a terrible thing
Unfortunately her heart is strong, but her mind is falling apart.
I would stop the Azaflow, debetable if she still loves home, but defo when the nursing home comes..

I love her to bits but objectively I wish for her that she doesn't have to go through the indignity of Alzheimer end stage.. the ego loss, the loss of self control, loss of eating impulse; inability to maintain personal hygiene.. Can only think of one wose thing and that is to become fully paralyzed with an active mind..(the opposite)

If I ever get past 75, I'm getting a DNR tattooed on my face
no resussitation
No anti stroke meds.

Let me have it, if found, narcotics only! The more the merrier.
his heart is weak : Narcotics
CT shows a stroke : Narcotics
Keep me high and knocked out till

I would not be interested in healthy living anymore , might even pick up smoking again.
Why not? because it might kill me?

We will take our pet we love to bits, to the vet when the time comes.
But for humans we are unable to step back and look at it with the same objectivity.
it's very controversial I get that. And I'm not saying this is it for your case, or what you should do or how you should perceive it.

Just alternative perspective that perhaps your dad buys into, it may be hard to bring it up.
But you might find relief if you ask him some frank questions about his goals and wishes and what stage of life he thinks he is at?

[908/930]

Possibly look up some assisted living facilities and take him with you to inspect and arrange to stay for lunch, and check out what activities are available. We needed to persuade my MIL to give up her house, she is early 90's and did not want to move out, but now that she is settled in she really likes it, meals cooked for her and other people around, and assistance if required.

[911 Rod]

If he doesn't want to keep seeing his grandkids, he has given up.

[ADDvanced]

My dad's house is worth a million +. A few months ago he reconnected with a high school flame. She has 8 kids. He married her. Now his million dollar house will be cut up into tiny chunks to all her kids instead of me and my sister.

IT's his life... but also... what the ****.

I can't control anyone but me. I'm sorry you're going through this, people just make idiotic decisions all the time and don't listen and when it's life threatening it's super frustrating and stresseful. Good luck.

[asphaltgambler]

^^^8 kids? The last one must've just walked out...........

[matthewb0051]

Nothing much to offer other than encouragement to stay the course.

My father died of Acute Ketoacidosis. He was fastidious about tracking and keeping records of his blood sugar. Until he stopped. We didn't know and only a short time later he was gone.

It was unexpected and a shock. Not something I would wish on another.

I wish I could go back in time and kick him in the balls to get him back on track.