late to college classes? You?

[look 171]

Cabmando's college thread got me thinking about my youth a bit. I sometimes took late to evening class due to work. In LA, there's the dreaded traffic even back 30 years ago. I was late more the a few times, but walked in quietly, respectfully sat in the back. Most professors understood and said nothing but some were a real pain in my ass and rode me until I snapped back. In my later years in college, I had a cabinet shop about 45 min from school so when I needed to make dead line, I push the day as far as I could.

I had this self-righteous, religious studies professor rode my ass hard in front of class about coming on time to HIS all mighty lecture and that its very important to be there to listen to his BS. After a couple times, I had to ask if he was going to pay my rent and buy my groceries and pay my lease with his fantasy lectures and that I didn't give a rat's azz about his lectures because I was forced to take the class and he had an easy, high paying job and forgotten about what hard work was like when pinned against the wall with dead lines. He never bothered me again. There were a couple others that continued to argue until their faces turned blue and needed to win an argument no matter at what cause.

You guy come across anything like that?

[jyl]

The only college classes that I took seriously were math classes, and they don’t care if you attend or not, it’s sink or swim and the real work is done outside of the classroom. The other classes were just for fun. I took ROTC classes, architecture, rhetoric, Greek lit, ski club, pitcher chugging, growing pot, just hanging out on Telegraph. If I didn’t like the class, I didn’t go. A couple times I just showed up to the final and wrote bull**** (history classes). So, no, no professor ever gave me ****. Law school was different - that was really hard work and if you walked in late you’d be getting grilled for the whole hour - the Socratic Method. Biz school was back to care / don’t care.

[SCadaddle]

I had a Surveying professor at dear old Moo U. (Mississippi State) that stayed on my butt for falling asleep in his class and it seemed like his significant figures always changed especially when it came to grading the exams. He was an ex military Surveyor, dropped aerial targets in Korea or somewhere. Not a humorous bone in his body and what he said in the State Licensing Board rules and regulations were gospel. You didn't cross him up. I wound up getting a C in his class.

Fast forward 20 years. I'm now a Licensed Land Surveyor and the ole prof he's retired. We both met up in the woods one morning with a crew of about 10 others to pour a concrete monument and place a granite and bronze disk at what the prof and a few others over the course of a decade or more had determined to be THE exact spot of the "Initial Point" of one of the principal meridians in Mississippi, THE initial point where all the Gov't surveys began in the area about 1820 or so.

I walk off about a half chain (33') north to take a leak and while I'm peeing I look over my shoulder and holler "Hey! Have you guys seen this pine knot over here?" Ole prof about fell over. We pour the concrete and place the granite and bronze disk while I'm checking it's position with a plumb bob and the strings from the straddles.

I looked up at my old Prof and say to him "I bet you never thought I'd be a significant figure one day, did you?" He just grinnned.

http://www.pmproject.org/Choctaw.htm

.................................................. ...........

Another class, an Old fellow prof teaching Highway Engineering. He spent the whole class day lecturing on how to figure out how many dump trucks and how big a loader you needed for a dirt pit X miles away from the job site to keep everything moving smoothly. I was sitting on the front row and just hung my head in my hands. He says "would you like to add anything to the discussion?" I looked up and said sure prof., it's all fine and dandy on paper but when all the dump truck drivers stop at the same cafe for a cup of coffee it all kinda goes out the window! I've been there. I've already done that. I've already SEEN that!

[PorscheGAL]

Interesting about showing up late.

Now in tech schools the rule is 3 tardies=absence and 3 absences and you are dropped from the class. It's my understanding that rule will phase in for 4-year colleges in the next couple years. The rule comes from the Federal govt. The argument is they pay for most college so they want to ensure they are getting their moneys worth.

My experience is: the students show up but search their phones the whole time.

[KFC911]

I was always on time .... when I actually went to class

[masraum]

Originally Posted by KC911

I was always on time .... when I actually went to class

That. I was usually either on time or didn't go. I learned quickly that I shouldn't schedule any 7am classes, and should try to avoid 8am classes when possible.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

I had a Surveying professor at dear old Moo U. (Mississippi State) that stayed on my butt for falling asleep in his class and it seemed like his significant figures always changed especially when it came to grading the exams. He was an ex military Surveyor, dropped aerial targets in Korea or somewhere. Not a humorous bone in his body and what he said in the State Licensing Board rules and regulations were gospel. You didn't cross him up. I wound up getting a C in his class.

Fast forward 20 years. I'm now a Licensed Land Surveyor and the ole prof he's retired. We both met up in the woods one morning with a crew of about 10 others to pour a concrete monument and place a granite and bronze disk at what the prof and a few others over the course of a decade or more had determined to be THE exact spot of the "Initial Point" of one of the principal meridians in Mississippi, THE initial point where all the Gov't surveys began in the area about 1820 or so.

I walk off about a half chain (33') north to take a leak and while I'm peeing I look over my shoulder and holler "Hey! Have you guys seen this pine knot over here?" Ole prof about fell over. We pour the concrete and place the granite and bronze disk while I'm checking it's position with a plumb bob and the strings from the straddles.

I looked up at my old Prof and say to him "I bet you never thought I'd be a significant figure one day, did you?" He just grinnned.

Choctaw Principal Meridian

.................................................. ...........

Another class, an Old fellow prof teaching Highway Engineering. He spent the whole class day lecturing on how to figure out how many dump trucks and how big a loader you needed for a dirt pit X miles away from the job site to keep everything moving smoothly. I was sitting on the front row and just hung my head in my hands. He says "would you like to add anything to the discussion?" I looked up and said sure prof., it's all fine and dandy on paper but when all the dump truck drivers stop at the same cafe for a cup of coffee it all kinda goes out the window! I've been there. I've already done that. I've already SEEN that!

Those are great stories. Thanks for sharing. Is the "pine knot" significant in the first story? Did the story take place in 1997 (from the link)?

[peppy]

When I went I was on time also.

I had a professor that said college kids were the only people in the world that would pay for a dozen apples and be happy getting six.

[RNajarian]

Good thread. . .

I had a career chance late in life and am now a full time tenure track professor at a local college.

We have a similar rule as Stephanie pointed out. Three absences you are out, three tardies equals one absence.

The trick is knowing when to put the hammer down. One single mom student of mine was consistently late, 5 minutes or so, because of child care issues. She was upfront at the start of school that she would have this problem, and would text me if she would be late. However, when she arrived, she came in quietly, sat up front, and was prepared for class. She was the model student, respectful and served as she class president during the entire program. She never received any disciplinary actions.

Another student, lived with mom/dad, constantly late, noisy entrance, Would text and surf the web during class from her phone. When I asked her to put the phone away, she would break out the snacks as if she was watching the Super Bowl. This student did not show any respect to me or her fellow classmates, this one received disciplinary action.

I’ll add one more layer to the equation….

I am a part of a professional education program, Dental Hygiene and Assisting program. We have a mandatory dress code/uniform for our program. This dress code is presented to them at orientation on day one. The students sign a contract to abide by our dress standards that failure to comply could result in dismissal from class or the program. This dress code includes nail length, hair style regulations, earrings (only ONE stud allowed), no visible tattoos, prohibition of face piercings, required style/color scrub uniform, calf length white socks, white (non fabric) shoes, name tags, no jewelry and protective (PPE) eyewear.

Our hygiene students are required to change out of their clinic shoes before leaving the building.

The reason for this strict dress code is to create a professional environment, ensure student safety (just think about long flowing hair near a running lathe), infection control, and what I call “employability.”

Most students comply without issue, but occasionally you get a student who has to be different. The student described above (guess which student) showed up to class one day with pink fuzzy slippers, dirty ones at that. I saw her enter 10 minutes late and immediately noticed her footwear. I pointed to her feet then motioned for her to leave the classroom, a finger pointed to the door.

Her response “What does it matter?”

I asked her to come forward, when she did. I then asked her to hand me her slipper. With a little hesitation she complied. I placed the slipper on the front table I was lecturing from and removed one of my shoes and placed it next to hers. I proceeded to drop dental hygiene scaling and root planing instruments (“tooth scrapers”) on both footwear. They bounced off my leather shoe but stuck in the slipper. I then replaced my shoe and dropped an instrument on my show which bounced off. I returned the slipper to her and held a scaler as if I was going to drop it on her foot.



She said “Ok I get it.”

I pointed to the door again and said “Tomorrow remember your name tag.”

If this sounds harsh remember the safety of students, staff, and faculty is paramount. The No food or drink allowed in clinical settings rule is an industry standard, as is our PPE requirements.


At officer basic training in the Air Force, our classrooms were locked precisely at the start of class. Early is on time, on time is late. I am more understanding with my students but draw rather line when safety is involved and will not stand for rude behavior.

The thing most people don’t realize is the other students resent the late, rude students.

Oh and one more thing. . . guess which student from my 2022 class is still unemployed?

[id10t]

Hrm.... I was never late, but then I was getting to campus at 8am for my 6pm classes.... did occasionally show up for class smelling of fish or beer (pond on campus I can fish in, bar nearby for dinner between work and school).

When I'm teaching (one night/week in Fall and Spring terms) my students are almost always on time if not 20-30 minutes early. The one exception is when I have students working jobs 45 minutes+ away and there is an accident on the interstate.

I also don't take attendance, etc. after the first week of class... figure they are adults and paying for it, they can show or not. Hell, if they don't show I get to go home early with full pay

[zakthor]

Never ever did I take a class where anyone cared about attendance. That was true in high school day care. In college you're an adult and make it if you can. At least for book learning, why should showing up count for anything?

That said I'd respect a teacher that had required lectures and booted students if they didn't attend, or who didn't allow late entry to their lectures. Is rude to disrupt the people that busted their asses to be there on time.

[SCadaddle]

Originally Posted by masraum

Those are great stories. Thanks for sharing. Is the "pine knot" significant in the first story? Did the story take place in 1997 (from the link)?

[Arizona_928]

I think I've only been late for class on the first day when the class is in some random building that isn't easy to find (ASU).

I've also been to some 700 level classes that no one showed up until exactly the start time. I thought that was rude and would be a few minutes early just not to be overly awkward...

Classes are political though. Impressions are everything. Smile, head nod, be polite, don't ask questions with some (schit) professors as they see it as challenging them and grade harder later. Others that care welcome questions (even redundant ones). Political.


As for attendance. LOL in a lecture hall of 200+. The only things that some professors do to take attendance was random pop quizzes. Physical chem at ASU was like that. Want to see 100 kids napping every lecture...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

Cool, thanks.

To ensure that I understand, the pine knot was what was left of a really old wooden marker.

Did your group set the marker where you found the pine knot or where everyone had thought it was before you wandered off to take a leak? And did you bury the pine knot under the marker like they did in the video?

[id10t]

Originally Posted by zakthor

Never ever did I take a class where anyone cared about attendance. That was true in high school day care. In college you're an adult and make it if you can. At least for book learning, why should showing up count for anything?

That said I'd respect a teacher that had required lectures and booted students if they didn't attend, or who didn't allow late entry to their lectures. Is rude to disrupt the people that busted their asses to be there on time.

All colleges are required to report "first day of academic attendance" for Financial Aid recipients. Most colleges figure it is just easier to have faculty mark everyone in the class. Some colleges have it automated and tied to their online learning platforms - take a quiz over the syllabus that is worth a rounding error in points of the final grade, and when final class grade isn't null and isn't 0.0 then mark as attended. I keep trying to get permission to automate it at work, but the faculty are too inconsistent and won't do their end of things (making class available, setting dates properly etc)

[matthewb0051]

Had a law school professor that had "rules". Seriously. Assigned seats, mandatory attendance, but best of all - no hats.

First day of class a friend was on front row, she had just gotten a horrible haircut and was wearing a baseball cap. She is gorgeous but thought a short hairdo would work. It did not.

Anyway, Prof is reciting his rules that we had not idea about and says the 'no hat' rule. He continued talking about BS then about 5 minutes later came back to the 'no hat' rule and looked at my friend and said something like, the rule starts now, sorry but please remove your hat.

She was mortified. Hat came off and her hair was horrible, you could cut the tension in the room with a knife. That was 1998 and I haven't forgotten.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by id10t

All colleges are required to report "first day of academic attendance" for Financial Aid recipients. Most colleges figure it is just easier to have faculty mark everyone in the class. Some colleges have it automated and tied to their online learning platforms - take a quiz over the syllabus that is worth a rounding error in points of the final grade, and when final class grade isn't null and isn't 0.0 then mark as attended. I keep trying to get permission to automate it at work, but the faculty are too inconsistent and won't do their end of things (making class available, setting dates properly etc)

But (other than for real safety stuffs) what is even the point of checking attendance? Is the school somehow unable to evaluate whether the student knows the material when they leave the class? Student writes their essays, takes their tests, stands before an evaluation board, etc, etc. Thats the proof of learning which is aligned with existence of school. Who cares if they've even read the syllabus? Your situation makes it sound like some bureaucratic anti-truancy high school damage has found its way into higher learning.

Is a distinction between going to class to learn real stuff and going to class as a performance and jump through hoops.

[SCadaddle]

Originally Posted by masraum

Cool, thanks.

To ensure that I understand, the pine knot was what was left of a really old wooden marker.

Did your group set the marker where you found the pine knot or where everyone had thought it was before you wandered off to take a leak? And did you bury the pine knot under the marker like they did in the video?

No, I was just pulling their leg about a pine knot (there wasn't one) being about 33' north of where they had determined the initial point to be restored. "Restored" by long accepted means created and adopted by the Bureau of Land Management (the original BLM) in the restoration of lost and obliterated corners. It's all about the evidence. What original evidence to the corner can be found and what can't, how it all weighs in on just exactly where to restore a corner only after it being deemed not obliterated but truly "lost". The earliest monuments were either an in the field crafted wooden post or a mound of stones or a series of earthen pits and mounds. All depended on what was locally available and conditions at the site of the corner. In the Southeast, pine trees were abundant and the use of a pine knot for a corner was and has been found to be a very durable monument. They don't rot and typically just char over in a forest fire. Still plenty of pine knot corners to be found in the rural areas. After the turn of the century with the advent of the automobile it became common to use a buggy axle as a corner. Remember, we were still decades from having metal detectors to find a corner. I've found pine knots, buggy axles, muzzle loader, shotgun and rifle barrels at corners. I've even once set iron pins on a rural survey only to have the adjoining owner, while I'm still on site, drive a cut off drive shaft complete with 1/2 U joint over the top of my iron pins.

We set the monument where those involved in the restoration had determined it to be set. Interesting you caught the part about using what was left of the original monument in the new monument. That's the proper thing to do. It gives pedigree to the new monument and a restored corner monument with the remnants of the original monument carries the same "weight" as the original corner. Also notice in the video near the end the remnants of the original bearing tree, or "witness tree" also gets a new tag as to it's witness to the monument. It's an accessory to the corner as well.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by zakthor

But (other than for real safety stuffs) what is even the point of checking attendance? Is the school somehow unable to evaluate whether the student knows the material when they leave the class? Student writes their essays, takes their tests, stands before an evaluation board, etc, etc. Thats the proof of learning which is aligned with existence of school. Who cares if they've even read the syllabus? Your situation makes it sound like some bureaucratic anti-truancy high school damage has found its way into higher learning.

Is a distinction between going to class to learn real stuff and going to class as a performance and jump through hoops.

Depends on what course, etc. (some certification tracks or headed-for-state-licensing things require N contact hours and track it per-student). Can depend on college admin, either department level (ie, math dept requires attendance in anything below college algebra) It also comes down to that whole "academic freedom" thing of how an instructor thinks it is best to evaluate your learning - that whole "A for effort" deal...

Had one programming instructor (javascript/css/html) who couldn't program her way out of a wet paper bag that graded on multiple choice exams (40%), attendance (25%) and the rest was projects and labs which she did live in front of the students on the projector - all you had to do was retype what she had.

My stats teacher just didn't care if you were there or not, etc. but if you were not in class he wouldn't answer questions on homework/quizzes. And if you didn't attempt the (optional, ungraded) homework, he'd not help you after bad quizzes/exams.

Some teachers think that you cannot learn something unless you sit in their presence for 45 minutes to an hour and a half listening them drone on with bad powerpoints and such being displayed on projector.

Personally my Intro to Linux course is aimed at the LPI cert and the content is all provided by Cisco via NetAcademy. I get to fill things in with hands on experience in class, so class time is almost all laba time. Grading is straight out of Ciscos content, with weekly labs and two exams. With my Linux Services course, I expect students to do a little bit of reading beforehand - maybe 4 pages max per week - and I spend about 10 minutes doing a overview of it all, a demo of how things work, and then the rest of class is lab time, so they can implement a router, dhcp server, dns server, file server, web server, and mail server with me sitting there to help them get unstuck when they skip a step and don't RTFM.

I also assume that they've actually learned what the course description for all of the prior classes say they should learn and end up having to take extra time to do things like explain exactly how various protocols work, much less the Linux implementations of them.

I've noticed the quality of my incoming students has decreased. We've also lost all of our competent full time faculty with industry experience, and we're about to relocate the entire ITE program to a branch campus, so many adjuncts are considering leaving. I'm in that list - since I have no control over the quality of our program, I'm not going to be involved with a ***** program and having to go to the branch campus will kill my free time between full time job and teaching and then add an extra 20 minutes to drive home at night.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

Good thread. . .

Great post my Air Force Brother.

I helped put three young enlisted men into college programs my first tour...two aircrewman and a mech.

All three had reservations about their ability to compete with "college kids".

I told them that many "college kids" view an 8 0'clock class as a hardship...be you, treat college like a flight schedule with the Chief looking over your shoulder and you will crush it.

They did. All three.

So much of life is showing up as best you can...being late and unprepared is a different animal from being late and reedy to roll.