Minor/major catastrophe averted!

[masraum]

We have the grandsons (6 & 3) Tue - Fri this week. Our son and daughter in law have today and tomorrow off, and came out today to spend a day with us. The DiL is ~8.5 months pregnant.

My wife's big plans for today and tomorrow are 1 today, make a giant slip and slide with 100' of plastic sheet (folded to about 55' so it would mostly be double layer), a hose, baby shampoo and a kiddie pool for the kids today. Tomorrow, our son, the 6 yo and myself are going to spend a few hours floating down the river. Hopefully, we can get that done before it gets crazy hot, because we are all pasty white folks.

Today, about 20 mins into the slip n slide (which was a huge hit with the boys, btw) the water stopped. All of the water stopped, hose bibs, inside the house, everything. We're on a well. We have an 8.5m pregnant woman spending the night. We NEED water, to wash and flush toilets and the like.

Fortunately, the issue was the pressure switch. When I got to the pump house (should I say pump dog house) I could smell hot electronics, and 3 of the 4 wires at the pressure switch were pretty thoroughly fried, and the pressure switch had clearly gotten really hot it spots. One of the wires was very fried, and 2 others had been very hot. The closest hardware store had a 20-40psi switch and a 30-50psi switch, but our switch is a 40-60. Fortunately, Tractor Supply ~15 miles down the road had a couple of 40-60 switches.

I got the new switch in about 20-30mins before sundown. THere were no leaks at the switch. I sat there for 15-20 mins after, and none of the wires ever felt a tiny bit warm. I'm guessing there was a bad connection.

I noticed it seemed like there was a capacitor in a box that was connected to the pressure switch. That made me wonder if it is a good idea to keep a spare capacitor laying around as well as a spare pressure switch.

The kids had a great time on the slip and slide. More than once I heard the 6 yo get up after sliding down and scream "THIS IS AWESOME!"

And I was able to restore water to the house with an expenditure of $30 and 1-1.5hrs of work.

[DWBOX2000]

Well done. Glad you got it working.

[cabmandone]

Do you have a submersible pump? I can't recall from previous discussions. Only reason I ask is you mention the box with the capacitor that indicates you have a submersible pump and I'm thinking you had a jet pump in the pump house.

[klm2500hd]

Yes, get a spare capacitor. Personally have spare capacitors, relays, pressure switches, heaters, etc for well and hvac system. These things never go out on a weekday when someone can be right out to fix it. Always good to have spare parts on hand.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Well done. Glad you got it working.

Thanks, me too.

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Do you have a submersible pump? I can't recall from previous discussions. Only reason I ask is you mention the box with the capacitor that indicates you have a submersible pump and I'm thinking you had a jet pump in the pump house.

I guess it's submersible. The only thing that I see above ground is the pressure tank.

Originally Posted by klm2500hd

Yes, get a spare capacitor. Personally have spare capacitors, relays, pressure switches, heaters, etc for well and hvac system. These things never go out on a weekday when someone can be right out to fix it. Always good to have spare parts on hand.

Yeah, I didn't realize there was a capacitor, but I don't want to be stuck if/when it dies.

[cabmandone]

Okay. For some reason I thought I remembered seeing a jet pump in one of your pics. I'm not familiar with the pumps that use a control box. My pump is submersible and doesn't require a control box. I'd definitely keep a capacitor on hand. I've found that sometimes with a pressure switch, a good tap will get one up and working on a temporary basis. With yours having wires that got hot, I'd probably put an amp probe on the supply wires just to see what the pump is drawing.

[A930Rocket]

So, do you keep the spare parts in a bag in the pump house, etc.? I had a McLean edger and always kept a spare belt tied to it.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Your pressure switch should be controlling a load relay and not be in line with the large current surge of the motor every time it starts. If the pump starts short cycling its gonna burn up again.

[GH85Carrera]

Similar catastrophe level, but very different situation happened to my parents on Thanksgiving day. Of course the house was full of relatives for dinner and conversation. All of a sudden the kitchen sink plugged up, and the drain trap stared leaking after some plunger action.

There are very few stores if any open on that day. SO I jumped in my car, and drove home to get a trap I had, and planned to replace very soon. I got back with my plumbing overalls on, and my tool box. The trap was not quite the right fit, but I made it work. While the trap was off, we ran a 30 foot snake down the pipe, all while my mom was trying to keep guest happy, and and keep cooking the turkey.

I got it all cleaned up, put back, draining right, and I washed up just in time to have Thanksgiving dinner. After all the guests left, their main bathroom toilet had some flushing issues. I was happy they had a second toilet, and I left dad to have fun with that problem, and I went home. He called a plumber the next day to do a full pipe clean-out with professional level equipment.

[matthewb0051]

Being able to fix stuff is the best thing and lets you keep your 'man card'.

A few years ago a friend was going to hire an electrician to change an outlet that had gone TU. I went over and did it. He was petrified and had no idea how or what to do. Flip the breaker and get a screw driver. Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure he even had a screwdriver.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Your pressure switch should be controlling a load relay and not be in line with the large current surge of the motor every time it starts. If the pump starts short cycling its gonna burn up again.

^This.

The switch just handles the amps.
The amps are from the pumper/motor.
[we assume the electrical supply to the pump is good]

The amps from the pump motor are based on a continuous fresh supply of water and a clean pump.
That should work forever under normal conditions.

It may be supply lines blocked by minerals...or routed too ziggy from the well...or unfiltered ground water supply detriment which is chewing up the pump....

What you see burn up might not be the actual problem.
Fix the source.

[DerkPerk]

The over heated wires are high current draw due to a poor connection, with the actual wire connection or the contacts in the pressure switch. You covered the bases by replacing the switch and cutting the wires back. Like mentioned above, not a bad idea to get an amp clamp on the load. It always pays to be handy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[masraum]

Thanks folks. I'll check the amp pull on the wires.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

Okay. For some reason I thought I remembered seeing a jet pump in one of your pics. I'm not familiar with the pumps that use a control box. My pump is submersible and doesn't require a control box. I'd definitely keep a capacitor on hand. I've found that sometimes with a pressure switch, a good tap will get one up and working on a temporary basis. With yours having wires that got hot, I'd probably put an amp probe on the supply wires just to see what the pump is drawing.

I'm not sure the "control box" is really much other than a box for the capacitor and maybe a little transformer or something. I'd worried that the fried switch was a symptom more than the problem. That's why I monitored after I put everything together. No wires ever got warm. I was away from home today, but this weekend i'll do some more checking on things.

One of the things that I checked "while I was in there" was the pressure in the pressure tank. It was supposed to be 38psi (2 psi below the turn on psi of the switch). It was about 25psi. I pumped and pumped, and pumped it up until I had 38 psi. I need to get out this weekend now that all or at least most of the air is out of the system and check the on and off pressure and make sure it's right.

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

So, do you keep the spare parts in a bag in the pump house, etc.? I had a McLean edger and always kept a spare belt tied to it.

Historically, I did not keep a lot of spare stuff on hand because I lived places where there were stores open 7 days a week, water came out of a pipe, etc.... Now I live in the country where many/most stores are closed on Sundays, and if I have to go to 3 different stores, one is 4 miles west, the next is 15 miles east, and then the third is 25 miles northwest. Then there's the issue that getting the water out of the ground and into the house is my problem (as well as a bunch of other stuff). I think I'm going to start keeping more spare parts around.

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Your pressure switch should be controlling a load relay and not be in line with the large current surge of the motor every time it starts. If the pump starts short cycling its gonna burn up again.

I'm pretty sure the pressure switch is THE relay for the power to the pump.

Originally Posted by john70t

^This.

The switch just handles the amps.
The amps are from the pumper/motor.
[we assume the electrical supply to the pump is good]

The amps from the pump motor are based on a continuous fresh supply of water and a clean pump.
That should work forever under normal conditions.

It may be supply lines blocked by minerals...or routed too ziggy from the well...or unfiltered ground water supply detriment which is chewing up the pump....

What you see burn up might not be the actual problem.
Fix the source.

that's a concern for sure.

Originally Posted by DerkPerk

The over heated wires are high current draw due to a poor connection, with the actual wire connection or the contacts in the pressure switch. You covered the bases by replacing the switch and cutting the wires back. Like mentioned above, not a bad idea to get an amp clamp on the load. It always pays to be handy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I believe there was a bad connection at the switch that caused a problem, but I will be doing more checking to be sure.

failed switch. Wire #1 (1st from left) was fine, #2 was REALLY cooked, and #3 and #4 were mildly cooked.


Not my new switch, but this is what it looked like.


The box that I called a "control box" is very much like this. It doesn't seem like it really controls anything. It's mostly just a housing for the capacitor.


But, in this diagram, they call it a control box, so I guess I'm not the only person to call it that.

[nota]

plumbing trick

if you have a pressure washer

they make a great pipe jetter

just get the end bit for pipes