Haven't seen this one before! ... NASCAR winner at Pocono

[cabmandone]

I watched most of the Pocono race on Sunday. Hamlin finished first, Kyle Busch second, Chase Elliot third. Apparently post race inspection turned up something on the front of two JGR cars that disqualified them and Chase Elliot was given the win. Haven't seen that happen before.

JGR isn't appealing so there must have been something more than a ticky tack violation at play.
https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2022/07/25/joe-gibbs-racing-will-not-appeal-disqualifications-of-nos-11-18-at-pocono/

[Sooner or later]

Couldn't have happened to a better pair.

[flatbutt]

and the advantage of this non-compliance is what?

"In our review of the post-race infractions on the 11 and 18 cars at Pocono, it was discovered that a single piece of clear tape was positioned over each of the lower corners of the front fascia ahead of the left-front and right-front wheel openings on both those cars. The added pieces were 2 inches wide and 5 ½ inches long with a thickness of 0.012 inches and installed under the wrap."

[cabmandone]

^^^
I would think there would have to be some sort of aerodynamic benefit or they wouldn't have done it.

[A930Rocket]

How much aero can be changed by something that’s 2 x 5 by .012? Definitely it was on purpose, no matter how small and did something as cab said.

[greglepore]

Enough that they finished 1-2


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[cabmandone]

It was a change in "build process" that's all.

"This change in our build process was not properly vetted within our organization and we recognize it is against NASCAR’s rules."

[URY914]

So give them a $10k fine and let them keep the finishing positions.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by URY914

So give them a $10k fine and let them keep the finishing positions.

IMO, there's a reason JGR isn't appealing the decision and it's not because it was just some change in the build process.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

and the advantage of this non-compliance is what?

"In our review of the post-race infractions on the 11 and 18 cars at Pocono, it was discovered that a single piece of clear tape was positioned over each of the lower corners of the front fascia ahead of the left-front and right-front wheel openings on both those cars. The added pieces were 2 inches wide and 5 ½ inches long with a thickness of 0.012 inches and installed under the wrap."

Just going off the above description my guess is ...

They used a strip of helicopter tape (super strong tape for leading edges of rotor blades) to seal a joint line between the front lower splitter and front bumper where the it meets the front edge of the wheel opening

The gap was probably identified during full scale wind tunnel testing or high resolution on track photos and caused by the aero loads opening up a panel joint due to not enough/incorrectly positioned fixings or stiff enough bodywork

The surface/sealing integrity of this area of the car is 'super' critical/sensitive to how the the front wheel/tyre wake flows down/under the rest of the car and/or the front aero loading on the car

'Change to the build process' is just a convenient excuse for a well thought out illegal performance advantage

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Just going off the above description my guess is ...

They used a strip of helicopter tape (super strong tape for leading edges of rotor blades) to seal a joint line between the front lower splitter and front bumper where the it meets the front edge of the wheel opening

The gap was probably identified during full scale wind tunnel testing or high resolution on track photos and caused by the aero loads opening up a panel joint due to not enough/incorrectly positioned fixings or stiff enough bodywork

The surface/sealing integrity of this area of the car is 'super' critical/sensitive to how the the front wheel/tyre wake flows down/under the rest of the car and/or the front aero loading on the car

'Change to the build process' is just a convenient excuse for a well thought out illegal performance advantage

The gap theory is good, except the illegal tape wasn't noticed until they removed the wrap (something that is apparently common during post-race inspection). Wouldn't the wrap seal that gap? I wonder if instead of a gap maybe a hinge was discovered and the tape was being used to eliminate the movement of the air dam?

Either way, it speaks to the art of the aerodynamicist that seemingly tiny anomalies are identified and addressed and a good result is the outcome.

Next cheat - wraps that are manufactured with thinner and thicker areas to either hinge or stiffen the bodywork.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

The gap theory is good, except the illegal tape wasn't noticed until they removed the wrap (something that is apparently common during post-race inspection). Wouldn't the wrap seal that gap? I wonder if instead of a gap maybe a hinge was discovered and the tape was being used to eliminate the movement of the air dam?

Either way, it speaks to the art of the aerodynamicist that seemingly tiny anomalies are identified and addressed and a good result is the outcome.

Next cheat - wraps that are manufactured with thinner and thicker areas to either hinge or stiffen the bodywork.

the tape changes the shape, and the wrap isnt strong enough to.

good to see NASCAR get serious about cheating. im liking everything about the new NASCAR.

[p911dad]

Time to que up the Smokey Yunick quote: There are two types of racers - cheaters and losers.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by p911dad

Time to que up the Smokey Yunick quote: There are two types of racers - cheaters and losers.

You sure that wasn't Jack Roush? I remember him accusing the 24 team of chemically treating tires, or something like that. I think it was Evernham who said "it's called air Jack"

[mattdavis11]

Nascar needs to get back to its roots. I think it would be a lot more entertaining if they let the crews make whatever changes they want in-race... Including ditching the restrictor plate, if they still have those.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

Nascar needs to get back to its roots. I think it would be a lot more entertaining if they let the crews make whatever changes they want in-race... Including ditching the restrictor plate, if they still have those.

you can be wrong.

the spec car is doing fantastic things to the racing this year. basically all good racing comes from spec cars NASCAR has finally figured that out. indycar is a good as ever: spec car, TA2 is the best class in transam: basically spec car, IMSA: Bopped, WEC: bopped. F1 remains as boring as ever because ... not spec cars.

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by cabmandone

IMO, there's a reason JGR isn't appealing the decision and it's not because it was just some change in the build process.

I think it's because Joe Gibbs knows you play by the rules or you don't. The article I saw said the piece didn't fit the CAD file profiles so was illegal.
Frankly, I think that's a whole bunch of whooee as I think any splitter that's seen track time doesn't 'fit the CAD file' profile either. For them to say it is out because of .012" is saying they must have put it up on a really accurate measuring table in a controlled setting to see that much difference.
What would they do if say there'd been a crash and they put that barer bond stuff on it to fix it and the car won then?
You can bet that stuff is a lot thicker than .012".

[nota]

HATE THAT THERE ARE NO STOCK CARS

and have not been for years

would love to see 2 liter 4 bangers race

and 3 liter 6 cars
and 5 liter v8s japs germans everybody gets to run STOCK
NO FAKE NO BUILT STOCK
RACE WHAT WE CAN BUY

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by nota

HATE THAT THERE ARE NO STOCK CARS

and have not been for years

would love to see 2 liter 4 bangers race

and 3 liter 6 cars
and 5 liter v8s japs germans everybody gets to run STOCK
NO FAKE NO BUILT STOCK
RACE WHAT WE CAN BUY

the showroom stock debacle would like a word with you.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Couldn't have happened to a better pair.

Yep. Hamlin says it cost him $300,000.

Originally Posted by nota

HATE THAT THERE ARE NO STOCK CARS

and have not been for years

would love to see 2 liter 4 bangers race

and 3 liter 6 cars
and 5 liter v8s japs germans everybody gets to run STOCK
NO FAKE NO BUILT STOCK
RACE WHAT WE CAN BUY

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the showroom stock debacle would like a word with you.

SCCA showroom stock = the most boring racing ever. Watched way too much SS back in the 80s.