Stamped Concrete Patio

osidak · 05-09-2011, 02:05 PM

I had a new patio put in - went with Stamped concrete (cobble stone pattern) and I am less than happy with the way it came out. Parts of it look great while other parts (random pattern) look like the stamp barely touched the concrete leaving just the outline and none of the texture of it

The contractor has 1 half the payment due and we are talking about remedies. I want him to tear it out and redo it and he wants to pour another 3 inches over top and redo it. I feel the pad is already higher up than I wanted it and due to the grade of the yard would be unacceptably high on the sides and would pose a danger to my son and his friends that have a habit running full bore through the yard.

The contractor has said the person that did the work felt the work was "fine" and did not want to redo it (and thus I do not want him anywhere near the job as I am sure it will be crappy work if he does it)

I am leaning towards putting down a slate tile to cover up the existing patio - wanted to know what the "experts" on here think about the viability of that option. The contractor has not suggested it but I may, or I may just say our business is done if you can not or will not provide a proper remedy and buy the materials with the remaining amount due and go forward myself

Opinions please

pad is 14x31 feet - it is a "colored mix" where they mixed a dye in while the concrete was still in the truck and then came back and sealed it the next day. I could not see the issues at the time because they had put a powdered "accent" color over top that they pressure washed off while I was at work the next day

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

I would be concerned that the contractor might try to put a lien on your property. If you cannot come to an agreement then I would consider sending a registered letter stating why you feel that the job it not properly done so payment will not be made until it is fixed. Maybe someone with more legal experience can step in with better advice.

johnco · 03:10 PM

the company I used to buy materials from, Increte, makes a thinset product for stamping existing concrete. that would probably be the cheapest solution to your problem.. I believe they lay down 1/4" to 3/8" thick and stamp it just like concrete. you probably won't notice any difference from concrete after stamped and colored

http://www.increte.com/vProduct.aspx?ID=4

a pool I did last summer had someone pour and stamp his deck. I just hope no would thinks I had anything to do with the crappy patchy colored, rocks showing thru and cracks the next day $11,000 concrete job. I can't believe they actuially charged for and got full payment for such poor quaility amatuer work.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I had the same problem with a driveway and motor court that was over 3000 square feet. The remedy was too painful as a surface that takes vehicle traffic has to be a minimum thickness of a couple inches. I had to learn to live with it.

Evans, Marv · 05-09-2011, 03:27 PM

First of all document all conversations and if the contractor has an email account, start doing all you can on email with follow up emails restating what you had verbal discussions about. Then you'll have the record of your part & his part of conversations. Sending a registered letter with return receipt is a good idea also followed up with an email. I'm not really up on liens, but I think I remember that suppliers and subcontractors can place a lien on your property if the contractor doesn't pay them. If there is a clear delineation between the good part and the bad - example: one half good, the other half bad, maybe they can tear up the bad part, put in an expansion joint, and replace that part. Sticky stuff when you get into situations like this. Do all you can to protect yourself. Also, any paper work, invoices, receipts, etc. you should have copies of from the suppliers, contractor, etc., make sure you get those.

osidak · 03:41 PM

So far everything has been verbal outside of the original contract - I called him and asked him to come to the house to see the work (the bad parts are sporadic and mixed in with the good parts)

He agreed with me and said he would tear it out and then the next day he called and said the person that did the work said it was fine and he would not tear it out and redo it.

It is my understanding that the guy that did the work - works directly for the contractor but who knows

What about putting down slate over top as an option to fix - I do not have an issue paying the full balance if and when I am happy with the job - I have told him as much - Have also told him I am not looking for a discount for a bad job

Evans, Marv · 05-09-2011, 03:43 PM

Quit doing everything on a verbal basis, you'll get screwed. Document every conversation you have & can remember including date & time, and start making a paper trail. If things end up in court, you need substantial proof of who said and did what, where, and at what time. The contractor has already said he would do one thing & subsequently changed that. I also hope you had a written contract for the work. In the end, you could probably get an independent organization of some kind to come in and assess the quality of work if necessary.

Evans, Marv · 05-09-2011, 03:45 PM

Oops, just read your last comment & you have a contract. I assume you've read it. The work has to meet industry standards.

Evans, Marv · 05-09-2011, 03:46 PM

Also, what a contractor leaves out of a contract can be as important or more so as what is put into the contract.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

does NC have any agency that regulates contractors??

Oregon has an agency that will mediate disputes - usually consumers are not too happy, but...

Mark Howard · 05-09-2011, 04:31 PM

Can you post some pictures? I can let my principal architect (who is an quality assurance expert) look at and let you know his opinion as compared to the specification. There is a quality standard specification for everything construction related.

A930Rocket · 05-09-2011, 04:49 PM

Pictures would help.

Everyone has different expectations for what something should look like when finished. Did you see his work somewhere else that you can reference? Are they the same or similar?

Adding 3" of concrete on top is going to be a solution that will fail at some point or another. It should be 4". If it was added, then you'll need to transition the grade to the concrete, which means adding dirt and maybe sod, etc.

dad911 · 05-09-2011, 05:18 PM

The stamped concrete was probably 'sealed'. Typically the excess powder(color) is powerwashed off, then sealed. If so, additional concrete on top will not bond. If areas didn't stamp, the concrete started to set before they could completely stamp it.

Time to get other experts, and quotes for repair/replacement.

It may cost more to fix than it cost to install in the first place.

drcoastline · 05-09-2011, 05:19 PM

It sounds like the concrete started to set before they got the stamp into some sections. Concrete tamping is cosmetic and probably will not be an issue regarding inspection by the construction official. Do you know if a permit was issued by the construction department? That could help you.

You should immeditaely send a registered letter stating you are dissatisified, why and you would like the pad replaced.

You could lay slate over the concrete. You will need to do one of two things to make it work. A skim coat would need to be applied to bridge the gaps from the stamping so the tiles don't crack or use a thicker tile that can bridge the gap.

Evans, Marv · 05-09-2011, 09:17 PM

dad911 is right about a concrete overlay not bonding if the original was sealed. If that's true, a skim coat shouldn't bond either. If you put anything on top like slate, tile, or ?? that requires an undercoating to bond it won't work. The only possible thing I can think of is to get somebody in there with a grinder to grind the top eighth of an inch or so off. Then something else could be done over it.

osidak · 05-10-2011, 04:47 AM

Took some pictures which I will post lower down - couple of questions

Bonding - by not bonding what issues would that cause if they pour over top - I would imagine the weight of the new bad would keep it in place - would it cause issues with cracking? I understand if tiled over as the weight would be much less and also it would be multiple pieces

Height issues - when taking pictures this morning I realized if they poured another 3 inches over top. The pad would be right at the level of my siding and I imagine that would not be a good thing as it would make it more likely for water to get behind the siding. Am I correct in that thought process?

Ok here are the pictures

This is the first area that was stamped

This is an area that is about 2 feet away from the first photo and done right after that first area

This is the edge of the pad that was stamped first again several feet away from the other two photos

This is the middle of the pad

This was one of the last areas stamped

This is the edge of the one of the last areas stamped

This was I believe the last stamp put down

Garp · 05-10-2011, 05:23 AM

It is a shame it didn't come out all the same cause the well done parts look really nice. Is there a big price difference with putting actual natural stone (real coblestones)?

dad911 · 05-10-2011, 05:33 AM

Cheapest repair is probably to rip it out and replace.

I feel your pain. Even though I am in construction 30 years, I decided to use use stamped concrete around my pool. Luckily the stamping was ok, but they screwed up the sealer and it immediately started to peel. Repair has been a mess.

It's a shame, because stamped concrete will last many years.

carr914 · 05-10-2011, 05:52 AM

I used to work for Increte.

The Concrete started to set up before they stamped it, there is a Delay product they could have used. Did they use colored concrete or a color hardener?

The powder that was on top that didn't allow you to see the stamping was the Release material - this doesn't allow the Stamp to stick to the concrete & gives the final look a depth as some of that Release is pressed in. The release gets washed off before Sealing.

The final product gets sealed, a lot of time by a Zyline based sealer - nothing will stick to it. So they cannot come back and pour 3 inches on top of the other slab.

osidak · 05-10-2011, 06:01 AM

They used some powder (6 bags) that they poured into the cement truck while it was rotating - Believe it was from a company called Proline

Did not pay attention to the brand of sealer but they had 10 gallons of it (not sure if they used all 10)

How do you get rid of that release agent as it is all over my back yard and looks like a real mess -

I am not going to go with the "pour over top" option but what happens if it does not stick (not trying to be a pain I promise) I can not imagine that it would slide off

Thanks