Lithium generators (Red Beard?)

afterburn 549 · 10-28-2022, 10:56 AM

For those that know, please tell me what you know, even with recommendations.
You see, I have this Motorhome conversion and in the old days, one needed a whole room for battery backup.
As I understand it, these do the same thing only more simple.
Much much lighter too!
Nowadays, I do not think there is a need for batteries, inverters, converters etc etc. and what all with these
new lithium things.
This is the unit I am considering. Yah? Nah?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MVJP7MV/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=9e36107ff73a9f439b2fe32bf18f6895&content-id=amzn1.sym.cf8fc959-74aa-4850-a250-1b1a4e868e60%3Aamzn1.sym.cf8fc959-74aa-4850-a250-1b1a4e868e60&hsa_cr_id=9522144020301&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=66f51a19-858d-4b6f-b295-91c1cd169d76&pd_rd_w=N7ScJ&pd_rd_wg=Q4xp7&qid=1666980181&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_2_img&sr=1-3-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&th=1

Arizona_928 · 10-28-2022, 11:58 AM

Only thing lithium is just a type of battery that has better performance and less weight over traditional fla batteries...

What's your question especially? Looking for a setup? Diy?

afterburn 549 · 10-28-2022, 12:03 PM

I think my question is, is my thinking wrong here>?
Why use a bunch of deep-cell batteries instead of these things?
I do not t see these mentioned over on the motor home forums so I question myself, .
Plus, is there a better setup?

Arizona_928 · 01:14 PM

Ah okay.

Lithium ion is used over FLA (flooded lead acid) as it has more usable capacity while being more bang for buck density wise... One can drain a lithium completely while with FLA you only have 50% of the usable watt hours. ie. your cell phone battery vs a deep cell golf cart battery.

Lithium ion batteries weigh less than FLA.
Lithium ion can be rapid charged if one has the right type of programmed charger, and of course the high current charging set up... (which is also the main failure point of lithium ion batteries or any battery for that fact).
Lithium ion is maintenance free.

My opinion on the matter:
If one has the time and skill. I would order LiFePO4 batteries from china and build your own battery bank and charging setup. which can be used by these batteries (why? because all of the batteries are mostly coming out of china anyways), or get some new/used Tesla 2170's and build the right connections of parallel and series to get 48V.

afterburn 549 · 10-28-2022, 01:20 PM

That would be out of my skill zone

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

First, you want LiFePo4, Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. You can run then ~3,000 full cycles or about 10,000 partial (60%) cycles.

We built a system for RVs we called it the Mi-Grid 500. It included 2kW of solar for the roof, ~7.2 kWh of energy storage and a backup generator. The generators we supplied were automatic start, so if batteries went low, the generator would kick in and charge to about 80% (about 1 hour, depending on your power consumption) and then auto shutoff. 2 kWh of solar will produce 8-12 kWh of energy, depending on your location. The inverter is 4kW which will run your RV Air Conditioner, microwave oven and a hair dryer, all at the same time.

On building your own battery bank, you need to understand how to properly apply a BMS (Battery Management System) to prevent runaway. The batteries we used had the BMS built in.

The latest version of our system used 2 x 12V 300AH batteries.

And the system was compatible with RV shore power. It would also charge the batteries back up while on shore power. And everything we supplied was UL for safety.

I'm not really in the business right now...

nota · 10-28-2022, 08:04 PM

[QUOTE=Arizona_928;11833348]Ah okay.

Lithium ion is used over FLA (flooded lead acid) as it has more usable capacity while being more bang for buck density wise... One can drain a lithium completely while with FLA you only have 50% of the usable watt hours. ie. your cell phone battery vs a deep cell golf cart battery.

Lithium ion batteries weigh less than FLA.
Lithium ion can be rapid charged if one has the right type of programmed charger, and of course the high current charging set up... (which is also the main failure point of lithium ion batteries or any battery for that fact).
Lithium ion is maintenance free.

My opinion on the matter:
If one has the time and skill. I would order LiFePO4 batteries from china and build your own battery bank and charging setup. which can be used by these [URL="htt (why? because all of the batteries are mostly coming out of china anyways), or get some new/used Tesla 2170's and build the right connections of parallel and series to get 48V.[/QUOTE]

THE CELL ARE A BIT TRICK
tesla early cars BURN avoid those cells

even the safer LiFePO4 batteries can bite

NO do not discharge under 20% ANY BATTERY EVER
and there is no real gain from 100%
and overcharged is very bad to cooked killed bad
far safer 20 to 80% working range
need charge controller at very high very hot rates
MOST FAKE IT sorta work at moderate amps

SUSPECT ANY DROP IN CLAIMS

THESE AIN'T CHEAP OR EAZY

I want to get someday for the boat carts and home solar but not yet

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Honestly, for fixed applications, flow batteries will eventually become dominant.

afterburn 549 · 10-28-2022, 10:31 PM

This is way over my head, not my wheelhouse at all.
I need simple or a kit?
Or a place that will assemble such stuff?
I have the Genset,a 3 cyl diesel with smart switch.

sc_rufctr · 10-29-2022, 12:46 AM

For your viewing pleasure... Marco is probably the best on YouTube about this subject.

sc_rufctr · 01:47 AM

Here's another less technical/more practical review of the "BLUETTI AC200 Max".

The way I look at these devices: They're basically big batteries that can be charged from various sources.

- And you really don't need to understand the technical details to be able to use one.

afterburn 549 · 10-31-2022, 01:16 AM

Plug and play!
That is what I am hoping exist.....
I have been studying building a storage room on this platform. Unless one has had some useful training lately of some sort, this is not an EZ road to follow.
It all sounds so EZ but caveats are aplenty.
Being a mobil platform weight is always a thing to deal with.
There are currently (ahem) M.homes running around WAY over axle and the law knows it.
Who knows when they will crack dwn?
Plus, -It does no favor for the braking system and fuel management either. I think Wonder lodge is one of the big sinners??
The expression "take care of the ounces and the lbs will take care of themselves" is a good slogan to live by in most applications.
Right now I am under 26K and wish to keep as feather-light as possible. (old Greyhound Bus)
Pure sine wave is a new thing I have just learned....nuances again...geeesh.
Years ago this did not matter too much.
So, as i understand this scenario I do not need all the AC circuits run through a cleanup inverter but it would be most EZ.
I guess I have to schedule a field trip and examine sone other people's ideas on how they have accomplished all this.

sc_rufctr · 10-31-2022, 01:47 AM

Champ... The "BLUETTI AC200 Max" is basically plug and play. You already have a diesel generator.
- All you need is solar panels.

If I was doing this; I'd buy the basic unit + two decent sized solar panels and go from there. If I needed a second battery I'd buy that later.

BLUETTI AC200 Max - US$1,799.00
BLUETTI PV200 Solar Panel | 200W - US$499.00

https://www.bluettipower.com/products/ac200max-power-station

afterburn 549 · 03:37 PM

To me , this seems like the logical choice. I am not at all sure why it is not promoted to do it this way in different M.Home and RV venues.
I think connecting this battery generator to an output circuit for tender electronic stuff, the rest can be run on more caveman sq wave or whatever the gen set puts out?
Or even another battery pack.
All input here I am thankful for it.

flatbutt · 10-31-2022, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Here's another less technical/more practical review of the "BLUETTI AC200 Max".

The way I look at these devices: They're basically big batteries that can be charged from various sources.

- And you really don't need to understand the technical details to be able to use one.

That looks quite promising for those times when the grid goes down for only a few hours.

nota · 10-31-2022, 07:09 AM

200W SOLAR should be about 100 NOT $500 old style panels now

50 cent a watt is current low end price plus mounts plus wiring ect

sorry but NO none of the Lipo batterys are a true drop in YET

FOR ONE THING THEY CAN DISCHARGE FAST PUSHING ALOT OF AMPS WHERE YOU DO NOT WANT THEM

THEY REQUIRE CONTROLLERS TO LIMIT total charge
over charged Li batterys die dead
they require matched cells that then require balancing /charged to the same rate volts
buying cells and putting together a battery is not eazy
sure it can be done BUT you need to know what you are doing

systems are also complex and expensive

afterburn 549 · 10-31-2022, 07:55 AM

Nota and others,
-I read your words but have a zero for understanding all of what they mean.
I think you pros recomend buy
batteries.
Inverter.
charger.
some solar panels .

Correct?

If one of you pros could make a *list of these items I will entertain doing it this way If i can ask more questions.
I stress-make this simple, I do not need or want a bunch of gizmos ....if I can get away without them.
Thanx

* Name the brand, type etc if possible.
I would like to be able to run the Genset for a couple of hours a day and charge the system and a lot of the time run off batteries.
Is this possible?
I could set up solar panels on stands outside, but it would be sacrilege to put them on the roof of this bus.

nota · 10-31-2022, 09:02 AM

I am following on three fronts golf cart use of Li

some disasters with reused car Li battery esp Tesla early style that BURN
some reports of success with them and they are cheapest of the batterys from junk/wrecked cars
other car types some Lipo also used in carts

cruising sail boats more buy or make the batterys few reusing car packs
they note temperature problems Li do not like cold
some report burned up boats most say once the battery burns you can't put it out
others report over heated alternators that can't keep up with hi rates of charge heat burn outs
and over charged = very expensive dead battery

home off grid or nite use with solar panels
also using a car or cart to power the home at nite
and or a sail boat on a trailer

I have personal started a fire with tool 18v Li batterys trying to get 2 18 units to power a 24 v lawn mower
but still learning if they can be used safely I say tool packs do not hook up to get more volts
like a lead acid battery will

still learning not ready to say except avoid early cheap tesla packs know to burn
be carefull lots of energy in a very small package

nota · 10-31-2022, 09:24 AM

it is all coming from china

better known names are more likely better quality

samsung panasonic lifepo only no colbalt

they all need a good battery management system to prevent over charging

afterburn 549 · 08:22 AM

Getting educated here but it is a very steep curve.
The utubers have a lot of information on these systems .
End results is- they say it is simple...but to me, it is as if explaining corner scales to a unicycle rider.
Only they have words and nomenclatures familiar to those somewhat adept to those already immersed in this skill set.
Working on it here.