When an engineer cuts thru the EV cultists crap

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

How do EV owners pay road taxes in the US?

We pay higher registration fees.

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Today's EVs are backwards shallow-thinking technology. Primitive really. Take a few thousand flashlight batteries, solder them together, connect to a large slot-car motor and - voila! - a vehicle to one up every virtue-seeking neighbor on the block (the primary reason for owning one)

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or if you are truly that ignorant.

[island911]

Originally Posted by IROC

In accordance with Jeff's model above of naturally absorbing stuff from the industry you're in even if it isn't in your area of expertise... We are doing a lot of research here into the very things discussed in this thread. I am part of a team that does assessments throughout the Lab, so I get introduced to a lot of crazy stuff we do here and I have toured (as part of an assessment) our battery research center. While we are heavy into basic science as a rule, the strides in battery technology are more in the applied realm and have been pretty impressive. In fact, I just read this yesterday (on the discovery of a way to make cathode materials without the need for cobalt) :

https://www.ornl.gov/news/manufacturing-process-produces-better-cheaper-cathodes-lithium-ion-batteries

Don't know if the link above is public or not. But...in the end it is amazing the research that is currently going on. Battery technology has advanced greatly even in the last 10 years.

Not a lot of specifics there, but a good link read. - Thanks

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

..
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or if you are truly that ignorant.

Well, we can see you want to constrain his comments as absurd or ignorant.

Patrick, I can't tell if you are being a curmudgeon or if you are truly that ignorant. (see how that works?)

Curt's comments are spot on. Have you seen the Mercedes AAA-Class? - Julia Louis-Dreyfus parodies this exact point.

So how about putting up a counter-point, rather than this Hobson's choice insult BS.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by island911

Patrick, I can't tell if you are being a curmudgeon or if you are truly that ignorant. (see how that works?)
So how about putting up a counter-point, rather than this Hobson's choice insult BS.

I'm being a curmudgeon, so you can stop scratching your head over that.

I am an actual EV owner, and if you want to talk about insults, how about Curt's "... every virtue-seeking neighbor on the block (the primary reason for owning one)."

I'd like to see some data on the repeated assertion that EV buyers are just virtue signaling. If you know it's true, and have some data to back it up, let's see it. If you're just trying to insult EV owners, keep it up. You're doing a good job. But don't complain about a few insults coming back your way.

[cockerpunk]

the primary reason to own a tesla model 3 performance is to have easily the fastest car for under 100 grand.

i think a TM3PP on studs would be the hands down fastest car on the lake. i want one for that reason. they will dominate the evo/gtr.

[aschen]

Widespread EV adoption is written already, but the rate of change over will be a bit slower than many are predicting I think. Pretty much every auto manufacture is all ready "all in". Ironically toyota seems to be the laggard since they already invented the perfect solution plug in hybrid, which goes relatively unnoticed. If only there was a great solution in the middle........

I find the common uninitiated argument of "coal and lithium are dirty" amusing. Jeeze thanks the 10's of thousands of development engineers focused on EV development never considered the overall energy, co2, and pollutant balance.

The impediments are infrastructure & grid not technical or political. I am mostly indifferent except finding things like 200kwhr battery powered hummers an asault to good taste.

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

...
I am an actual EV owner, and if you want to talk about insults, how about Curt's "... every virtue-seeking neighbor on the block (the primary reason for owning one)." ...

His neighborhood sounds like mine.

Teslas and now Rivians abound.
So too do the vanity plates "NO-GAS, SANs-OIL, EFF-OIL, PURE-E, END OIL, 4GO-GAS....

Yeah, the virtue-seeking lives loudly in EV owners.

[wdfifteen]

A few bumpers stickers are your proof that "virtue signaling" is a primary reason for EV purchases?
Are bumper stickers the basis for the other "knowledge" you espouse here?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by aschen

I find the common uninitiated argument of "coal and lithium are dirty" amusing. Jeeze thanks the 10's of thousands of development engineers focused on EV development never considered the overall energy, co2, and pollutant balance.

They don't develop new products bases on the bumper stickers in island's neighborhood.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Mahler9th

Ducats:
https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000-miles-3-years/
4+ more years of data and development since that article.
Money printing?

A quote from the article: “A lot of people are probably interested to know how the battery pack held up, but unfortunately, it didn’t. It was replaced twice during the vehicle’s 400,000 miles.”

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

A quote from the article: “A lot of people are probably interested to know how the battery pack held up, but unfortunately, it didn’t. It was replaced twice during the vehicle’s 400,000 miles.”

The first pack made it to 194k miles, which isn't bad. Especially since the problem seems to be that the company fast-charged it constantly, rather than slow charging like a private owner would.

[Mahler9th]

That information about a battery pack is already 4+years old.

4+ years old.

I know some money people that looked at this type of use case and business.

$0.05 per mile versus $0.22 per mile 4+ years ago.

Its about the ducats.

How fast is an EV?

"Time it took to reach 1 million users:

Netflix - 3.5 years
Twitter- 2 years
Facebook - 10 months
Spotify - 5 months
Instagram - 3 months
ChatGPT - 5 days"


As we head into mid-century it is about the exponential... not the linear.

Brake pads last longer on these things.

No spark plugs?

No cats?

No oxygen sensors?

Different "stuff."

No more livery stables.

Fast, fast, fast!

Why, why, why?

Ducats!

[Mahler9th]

What is "virtue signaling?"


And what does it have to do with ducats?

[McLovin]

I have a Tesla - and I’m still it sure what to think about them.
Lots of different issues on gas v electric, today and in the unknown future.
One thing, at least on the highway and using electricity from Superchargers, they don’t seem less expensive per mile than gas (for “fuel” costs).
I did a Supercharger today, and $13 got me a claimed 85 miles.
At highway speeds that’s an actual 65 miles at best.
Even my older big 6 cylinder BMW gets 25 mpg on the highway. So I think I’d get 65 miles from $13 of gas.
I’m not really sure what to think about it anymore (partly because I don’t really care anymore).
But I do believe people are overestimating how “green” electric cars really are, and how “dirty” or inefficient a modern gas car is, and how good other possible alternatives (hybrid for example) might have been.
It’s clear that the Govt had dictated that the future is electric cars, but it’s not clear to me that it is based on real science, or politics and junk science.

[manbridge 74]

Good point about Govt dictated. From here on out I propose we call them government cars.

[island911]

+1 ^

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

A few bumpers stickers are ..

bumpers stickers? nah, no cheap-ass bumpers stickers. These people shell out for the Vanity Plates. - Did I not say Vanity Plates?

meh.

I will say that with the Model 3 that has subsided. Seems Tesla has built a brand with enough cache' to have people enthused for other reasons. But no doubt, the Capt. Planet cape could have come with each early Model S and those buyer would love it.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Mahler9th

What is "virtue signaling?"


And what does it have to do with ducats?

What's a ducat?

[brp914]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

What's a ducat?

an ancient italian currency

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by brp914

an ancient italian currency

You might be thinking of the Ducati. The ducat was European currency, not limited to Italy, in fact it was even used by the Dutch when they emigrated to New Amsterdam on the Hudson River before the British took over, changed the name of the settlement to New York and replaced the Ducat with the Pound as the fiat.

(Not the Fiat. That's just more Italian confusion.)

[brp914]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

You might be thinking of the Ducati. The ducat was European currency, not limited to Italy, in fact it was even used by the Dutch when they emigrated to New Amsterdam on the Hudson River before the British took over, changed the name of the settlement to New York and replaced the Ducat with the Pound as the fiat.

(Not the Fiat. That's just more Italian confusion.)

Thanks for that. I was thinking of Ascent of Money/Nial Ferguson. Good book, but it's been years and a little vague now.

[herr_oberst]

I was just having fun; I should have put that all in green, but hey, it's Friday, the weather outside is sloppy rain and cold and I'm stuck inside waiting on a friend....so my brain is off on a tangent.