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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Waterlogged
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Mike “I wouldn’t want to live under the conditions a person could get used to”. -My paternal grandmother having immigrated to America shortly before WWll. Last edited by Chocaholic; 12-25-2022 at 02:12 PM.. |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dahlonega , Georgia
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My mother in law lives in an assisted living facility in town . It was built maybe 5-6 years ago . All plumbing runs in the attic space . Yesterday the pipes froze then burst ☹️ . Fortunately the staff were able to shut water off quickly so minimal damage.
They were able to get a plumber there quickly and make repairs so they had water this morning . I can't imagine the rate for an emergency call on Christmas Eve 🙄 |
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Slippery Slope Victim
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 4,391
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My main comes up in a part of my attached garage and used to freeze the lines going in to the house through a soffit that was like a wind tunnel. The lines would freeze when the temp went down to 15. I heat traced all the lines in the garage and insulated them as well. Haven't had a problem since. Neighbors are not so lucky.
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Mike² 1985 M491 |
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Does it vs Can it. Does it, all or most of the time? No. Can it under the right circumstances? Maybe.
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: outta here
Posts: 53,500
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And hot water lines become cold water lines if you don’t run the hot water out one end. |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Opelika, Alabama
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Checked with her today and she said the only issue she was having today was that the toilet in her master bath wasn't filling up again just like yesterday morning but that all faucets in her house were working as they should. Her master bath toilet is on a corner outside wall so I'm guessing that it just gets colder on that side of the house. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." Wonka |
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Slippery Slope Victim
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 4,391
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46 years being in the plumbing business and hot water lines freeze first. Less oxygen dissolved in hot water. Hot water sounds different than cold water when it exists your faucet and hits the sink.
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Mike² 1985 M491 |
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The Unsettler
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Maybe it does it most of the time in pipes? Maybe those are the right circumstances? Seems to be a consistent observation from someone who has first hand knowledge through years of witnessing it happening.
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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To answer your question, look into the research that has been done on that and take note of the factors that they consider that cannot happen in a pipe. For example, evaporation.
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The Unsettler
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That’s just a fact. What makes you think it doesn’t? Because if you have water in a sealed jar the volume doesn’t seem to change? Evaporation (and hint, condensation) is still happening.
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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There should be no free air space in a pipe under pressure, as there would be in a typical jar.
Think about it. |
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Just thinking out loud
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Close by
Posts: 6,885
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Authoritarian physics, goodness gracious. Physicist simply do not understand out of equilibrium systems, so they cannot rationalize how it happens, therefore it doesn't.
![]() The hot water line in my garage freezes faster than the cold, and there isn't anything special about my garage. ![]()
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83 944 91 FJ80 84 Ram Charger (now gone) |
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The Unsettler
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When hot water cools it occupies less space. When you think about it, our grandmothers took advantage of that basic principle to put up their preserves.
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18,878
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*Caveat *
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dolor et pavor Copyright |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: outta here
Posts: 53,500
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The pipe effectively has one open end, with water being pushed into it under pressure. Your hypothetical loss of volume won’t happen, because there’s an endless supply of water behind that volume which cools, to replace it. If your granny canned things like mine did, that’s an entirely different set of facts. |
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The Unsettler
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By your logic we’d never have to bleed our brake systems because all the air would escape on its own. Why doesn’t it?
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: outta here
Posts: 53,500
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You have a pipe supplying water to something in your house. At one end is the valve, faucet, whatever it’s in your sink, toilet, shower, wherever the pipe ends up. What’s at the other end? If you think about it for half a minute at the other end is a pump or water tower, miles and miles away. There are no closed valves between your pipe and whatever pushes the water at the other end. I’m oversimplifying things but i’m doing so, so that you understand. If the water at your end of the pipe contracts because it cools, that volume is immediately filled by more water being pushed into the pipe from the city supply end. In your granny’s jar you will note that she left a little head space above the liquid level for air. After the contents of the jar were heated, she screwed the lid shut and has the air and contents of the jar cooled, it creates a partial vacuum in the air pocket. The jar was a closed system, there was nothing more coming into the jar. And, just for the plumbers, we’re ignoring that modern house is may have water hammer arrestors that older houses don’t, etc. Last edited by javadog; 12-27-2022 at 05:59 AM.. |
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