Deep freeze. Pipe question
 

Going to be below freezing for 3+ days here in Atlanta with early morning temps in the low teens.

Water turned off to all outside spigots and covered. Here’s my concern…house is on a slab so most plumbing (copper) runs through the attic. Two H2O tanks are also in the attic as are furnaces (heat pumps). Attic ceilings are not insulated, only floors.

I’ve insulated the hot water pipes for obvious reasons but never thought to insulate the cold. Will make a trip to HD today to get more pipe insulation if they’re not already sold out and leave water dripping overnight. What’s my risk of attic pipes freezing? Heard horror stories from last years TX deep freeze.

Here in Houston, I open my attic door to allow the warm air to get in and I also have an oscillating large electric space heater that I place adjacent to my pipes. Little things like that all help.

We're preparing for the same cold front starting today.

It certainly would not hurt. I would do it.

I would insulate any waterline covered by batt/blown insulation as well.

Thought about putting an oscillating ceramic space heater up there but wondered about safety. It will run for days and not easily accessible to check on. Thoughts?

There’s two lights up there and I was going to pick up some 100w incandescent bulbs and leave them on. Probably a drop in the ocean.

I suppose adjacent furnace will be running 24/7 for a few days and most leak some warm air.

That’s what I was going to suggest.

If you don't have or want to put a heater in the attic, the PO of my home put a halogen work light in the pump house to serve as a heater for the pipes out there. During "snowmaggedon" almost two years ago now, I sealed up the crawlspace and put 2 halogen worklights under the house to act as heaters. I think they are 500W, so they put out A LOT of heat. And yes, assuming you don't lose power, the heat from the furnace and house will probably keep the attic/pipes warm enough.

I had a house on a slab here in Va for 3 years with late 90's Shell poly pipe in the attic-forget the name but its considered weak-and it was fine for a spell of a week in the teens a few years back-the air handlers in the attic kept it warm enough. If you're worried, let a faucet or two run very slowly at night.
However, did learn the hard way that mice get in in the cold and love to eat pex type pipe. Mine came in thru a external chase (think gutter alu pipe) that the freon lines ran in. Installers filled it with expanding foam, which the mice went right thru-should be filled with the stainless wool that rodent control guys use. Had numerous leaks in ceiling over Christmas week. Joy to the world.

For the folks that are worried that you're going to have the same problem that we had in Texas 2 years ago, the main reason that so many folks had issues here was because the power was getting shut off so the heat wasn't running so the house wasn't warm. That wasn't the issue everywhere.

Redbeard or his parents had an issue, IIRC, because they had pipes in the exterior wall of the garage and the garage wasn't heated. I think there may have also been an issue where there were pipes in an exterior wall OUTSIDE of the insulation. Lots of folks had issues because there were pipes in the ceiling of the garage, again, no heat.

I would think that as long as you're heating the house, that most of the pipes in the house should be good. Or maybe I'm wrong.

good call on letting the water drip from the faucet, running water won't freeze....

Also, when you shut off the outside faucets, it is best to leave the outside spigot open, if any water is still in the pipes, it is the expansion during freezing that causes the problems, so an open spigot will relieve the pressure.

Heat trace thermostatically controlled to energize when temp below 35F.

Of course only works with electricity.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1671719086.png

Image didn't work but something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=electric+heat+trace&adgrpid=76729917039&gclid= CjwKCAiAnZCdBhBmEiwA8nDQxVIFHw37cZfvlmizjsZsgpLpqo EhjWPpwaGCTDq7kynVdJ-bnCVuUxoCHh0QAvD_BwE&hvadid=409930806915&hvdev=m&h vlocphy=9060223&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1232939059 7211387762&hvtargid=kwd-300523798736&hydadcr=13567_11413433&tag=hydsma-20&ref=pd_sl_1iof4iqtjn_e

And the HT goes under the insulation.

A painter left one of those work lights on underneath my brother’s house in Dallas and caught it on fire. Total loss.

Be careful out there…

I don't think you'll have a problem. The heat from the house will get sucked up in to the attic.
It takes consistent cold for days before your pipes will freeze enough to burst them.
If you are worried about it, let your taps drip.

Yep, I bought and installed something like that in our pump house after the big freeze 2 years ago. The pumphouse was the only place that we had a pipe freeze. It was on the opposite side from the work light, and I assume due to the power outages that we had. Fortunately, it was an easy fix so I didn't have to wait for a plumber like so many people.

I'm not using that method now. I've made improvements and have a better understanding of what's going on.

Are you supposed to open the outside hand crank valve after shut off? Makes sense to lose any standing water inside.

If you have a way to empty the pipes, that's ideal. I don't think most pipes will empty. I wouldn't hurt, I'd think to open the valve and let anything flow out that will.

I've heard it recommended to add a way to use compressed air to blow the lines out.

He's talking about 3 days around the freezing temp in a occupied home here.
Not going into an ice age

I’ve done the same. Finally did it right and installed heat tape on the pipes under the insulation.


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Ok…all pipes we can reach are now insulated. Will leave some taps open overnight to drip as well.

Keep the water running, slowly

Open cabinets under sinks (especially those on outside walls) so more heated air gets in.

In my vacation home< I use a small under sink pump system to return hot water down the cold-water line from the farthest point (from the water heater). It comes on when the hot water side cools to a specified level. It keeps both hot and cold lines from freezing.

You can also run water through the pipes periodically, long enough to warm them back up with the 50 or 60° water that is coming into your house from underground. Are usually do this right before I go to bed and then I leave the faucets dripping a little bit.

Run a bit of hot water now and then too...as water can freeze going out...as much as going in.

If you have a shut off inside the house that’s accessible, you can turn that off and then open up the hose bib outside to drain what little water is left. That and put a insulated cover over it. Another type of hose bib shuts off the water and drains it from the exterior.

That is the Ice Age to many in the south.

_

There are hose bibs that have the actual actuator inside the structure-these you just turn off, but disconnect anything connected or you'll defeat the purpose.

Even those can freeze if the cold gets deep enough into the wall.

There’s no excuse for having problems with hose bibs, failures are the results of bad architectural design and bad construction.

Yep, and there's plenty of both, especially in the South where freezes are rare.

THe big freeze that we had 2 years ago was because not only was there a freeze, but there were power outages too, so people didn't have heat in their homes to keep the homes and pipes warm.

It is no fun freezing water pipes in an unheated ceiling. Many times you don't find out until after they thaw out and then you have a mess. See if you can get heat tape you can wrap around your pipe and cover the tape with insulation. If you can drain the waterpipes, try and blow them out and back flush them with RV antifreeze until the other end runs pink.

i keep a radiator type electric heater in my well house with a programable timer that starts it around 11PM and it runs till 7AM. Even though my pipes are sch 80 PVC and insulated sleep better with the heater on when the bitter cold shows.

the radiator type heaters are a very safe electric option compared to anything that glows red to heat.

Fun fact.

The water is supercooled in the pipe and the pressure the pipe pushes on the water is what keeps it from freezing. Thicker pipe leads to the water being able to stay liquid at a lower temp under the freezing point.

It's 20º now (1050pm). It dropped below 32º at about 445pm. It's supposed to bottom out at 16º. The next time the temp is supposed to get above freezing is noon on Sat. < edit > since I started typing this response, the temp has dropped to 19º, LOL! < /edit >
The red line is the temp. The thick horizontal blue line is 32º

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1671771344.jpg

freezing point at sea level and standard pressure is 32ºF. freezing point at sea level and 145psia (160psig) is 31.88ºF. Since my pump switch is set to kick on at 40 and off at 60, I'm guessing the freezing point of the water in my pipes is maybe 31.96ºF. I'm not sure how much help that is.

Remember, hot water freezes faster than cold water.

Not exactly. High today is 21 and it will be 12 degrees from midnight until 8am tomorrow. Won’t get back above freezing until Monday.

2 degrees with the wind chill here in Houston this morning. Time to put away the flip flops.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1671804435.jpg

15º outside, heat's still running, and the water is still flowing. This weather sucks!

Bah!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/..._AC_UY350_.jpg

Granted, I'm inside and wearing long, thick wool socks with sheepskin slippers (wool on the inside), and a hoodie.

I'm heating up breakfast, so put the air fryer (small one) on my desk with the exhaust pointing at me. LOL!

The temp is trending up. 2º up, now 17º. The sun's coming up. We'll open the curtains in a bit to let a little of the sun's heat in.

The sun on your roof will add a few degrees to your attic. Maybe enough to be above freezing.