I Skiied For The First Time In 20 Years
 

Took my kids up to a local bunny hill, my daughter skiied a few times twenty years ago and my son has never been on the slopes. She did fine, about as well as she did at 6 y/o. My son rented a snowboard and, while he fell a lot, did really well - which I expected, him being a dancer and skateboarder.

This was my first time on skis in twenty years. The rental skis were short and weird, since I’m used to straight skis (my skis, which are still around somewhere, are 205 cm K2s from the era when that was not long). The rental boots sucked, had me bolt upright, otherwise they don’t seem to have changed. After I figured out how to not “over-turn” the skis, the (bunny) hill got boring pretty quick.

I’m kind of thinking about doing more skiing this season. The slopes are only 90 minutes from my house. I could find my old skis and boots, maybe, or if not then buy a starter set. Lift tickets are outrageously expensive but I could buy a pass, the season only recently started.

So, any advice on what to look for in modern skis, bindings, and boots? Back when I skiied, my favorite runs were the steep ones. Hard and icy was cool, but I never was great at the VW Bug size type of mogul, or powder.

The newer shaped ski's are so much easier to maneuver than the older ones. Once you get used to them, you won't go back.

I’d suggest you get fitted for a good pair of boots, and demo different brands of skis to see what fits your style and skiing preference. Like Steve said - new generation skis are like getting power steering!

And a pack of anti-inflammatory voltaren to keep the body in order.

Skis. You could look at those ones that are rounded up at both ends. Hot dogger style, and impress your son with stuff usually done by snowboarders.

I’m still on old skinny skis, about 25 years old now. Several pair, all dead or very near to now. edges paper thin, definitely broken down structurally. But I can’t change. Been skiing since I was 3 years old. Ski bummed several semesters in college. There was a time when I got 40-50 days in a winter. I love my long thin light bump sticks. Lightning fast edge to edge. Steer the shovel in, compress, explode out on the tail. Knees welded, quads sucking it up. This modern crap? That’s not skiing. Took out a demo set for the day last season at my daughters urging. Spatulas under my feet. Soft and vague. Easy? Yes. Satisfying ? No.

I used to love skiing but I was never good at it. Now though, I’m really scared of heights.

I found my old skis! K2 Extreme, 195 cm, bought them in the mid/late 90s, only skiied a few more times after that. Still looking for the boots but I might want a new pair, I guess plastic doesn’t last forever.

Hey John!
I just got home from a late afternoon / evening ski at Ski Bowl. I plan on going up every Wednesday more or less. I have a large SUV with plenty of room. Let me know if you have interest. Skiing is the only sport that I have a level of skill that is worth mentioning.

Come on up! It's good for the soul.

Gone twice in the last two years with a group of baseball parents. I was the only parent actually on the slopes last year. The others were smarter than me.

I gotta say I sincerely wish I’d taken it up when I was young and had good knees. What an awesome feeling. Doubt I’ll be able to get in good enough shape to do much more than the bunny slope. Couldn’t climb stairs or walk very well for days after the last trip.

You brought back great memories!!
I also had several pairs of 205's- from the 1970's.
My orthopedic surgeon would kill me if he ever heard I even looked at a picture of skiing.
He is the one that put 8 bolts in my knee from a mountain bike wreck.
I will live vicariously through you- please let us know how it goes.
gary

I've wanted to go back. Loved it thru the early aughts, but pain in fingers in the cold made me give it up. Was an aggressive, fast skier in the day, 5'5 130 on 205 Olins.
I'm told you sorta have to relearn on the new boards as you don't muscle an edge the way we had to back then.
Its a shame its become prohibitive for a family to ski unless wealthy.

Thanks! If I decide to pursue this, I’ll jingle you!

I haven't skied for almost 20 years now. I have been to most all of the major CO resorts and all in MI.

Until someone starts making bunion ski boots...I am retired.

Plastic does not last forever and having a boot disintegrate does not make for a fun day on the slopes. I have seen 2 friends blow out boots and it is ugly. The $$$ spent for boots may be less than medical deductibles. Additionally, they will be fitted well and function better than a pair of packed out rental boots. Then you can demo skis until you find what suits you. Unless you do your own tuning, you will not likely find a shop that will tune your old skis. The bindings are also likely plastic and may shatter.

Big fan of end of season demo sales or summer interweb buys. The stuff is expensive, as are lift tickets. Pretty much buy for 50% off.

If you enjoy it, get back in the game. Sharpen your skills and get out there for some big G turns and tickle your need for speed.

Packing for a week long UP trip starting Sunday. Just got back Friday from a week there between the holidays. Not the west but time on my boards leading up to 2 weeks in CO later in the season.Typically get 35ish days in a year.

I am a 71 yo Skiaholic and can't quit. Anybody know of a Skiaholics Anonymous meeting in the Chicago burbs? One run is too many and a week isn't enough.

I had Olins and whatnot but my favorites were K2 IIIs. I can't remember the last time I went skiing.

I'm looking into buying a set of alpine skis so I can hike up to a remote 40 acre parcel I bought in the Sierras. It's otherwise inaccessible during the winter months and I figure skiing must be easier than snow shoeing. :)

Thoughts???

Seems more of a job for cross-country (XC) skis?

I did have a friend who used "backcountry" or "mountaineering" skis, which are Alpine skis with bindings that can be set to allow heel lift, used with boots that were a cross between hiking boots and ski boots, and removable skins when trekking. He struggled on the steep stuff with that gear.

I did most of my skiing in college, with the UC Berkeley ski club. Went to many of the Western resorts - Jackson Hole, Vail, Steamboat, Aspen, Breckenridge, Taos, and of course the Tahoe resorts. Lots of super long rides in chartered busses with more pot smoke than oxygen. Did 30-40 days a year. I had Hanson boots (remember those?) and Burt bindings (no-one remembers those), before switching to more conventional stuff. Skis were Rossignol ST, Rossignol GS, and some K2s. Less skiing in grad school, and hardly at all after becoming a full-time work drone. I still have the STs and GS skis somewhere.

I had forgotten all about demo skis. Thanks!

Hanson boots! A short lived line. Add a 3rd buddy to the exploded boot club, a pair of Hansons at Blackjack on the U.P. Spectacular crash right in front of the lodge. Luckily, he was not hurt badly but his ego was:)

Learning to ski in the 1970's this was the mantra, some magazines even suggested binding the knees with a strap to teach the muscle memory to keep the knees together.

Well, I'm bowlegged (supine) and I could never really ski well until a friend taught me to concentrate all my turning energy on the inside edge of the downhill ski, through the big toe, modulating the turn by up and downweighting the knee into the shovel of the ski. The uphill ski was just along for the ride, more of an outrigger. My knees and feet were now acting totally independently like two McPherson struts. I COULD use the outside edge of the uphill ski if needed but that edge could also be ignored as the inside edge was most often more than enough to hold the turn. Undulations under one edge no longer affected the other.

This was a game changer, and I was able to build on this style for years and become a pretty good skier, with a smooth, fast style on most any surface or snow condition.

Now I have an artificial hip and my doc told me in no uncertain terms that skiing is no longer an option. (An awkward fall might pull the appliance apart or even out of the bone, and then I'd be Royally Screwed)
It doesn't really matter, I haven't skied downhill since sometime in the mid nineties. The cost of lift tickets and equipment pretty much priced me out,

(Brag alert, - we lived just about 40 minutes from the local ski hill, Bogus Basin, and because they offered night skiing, I was able to put something like 90 stickers on my ski pass one year, this was probably around 1980)

Owning 40 acres in the Sierra's sounds awesome.
Get a snowmobile

Leland Pate! Perhaps my all time favorite Pelicanhead.

I felt a great disturbance in the force this morning and thought I'd check in on the PP OTD since it's a slow day at work.

...that, and I needed to make sure Jim was still kicking... ;)

I'm on board with that - though we're likely in the minority. My kind of skiing was giant slalom stuff, fast long curves, max speed... The shorter wider new skis I tried seem awesome to make quick mogul turns without much effort or technique, but I found them to lack stability at high speed - they were vibrating under my feet the moment I started to go faster..

That said, at the same time during this experiment, I remembered I need to be in a much better shape to endure an entire day of skiing and get my $200 day pass worth, so it's academic... Skiing has gotten too expensive for my tastes - kids with a lesson and rental were $300 per day each, come on....

I have found that the best deal is a season pass. One for the U.P. & one for all the Vail properties. For about a grand(5 days at walk up prices) I get a lot of days on the slopes.

Pricing for day tickets is stupid high. Don't know how families afford it, plus equipment, food & lodging. And the industry is wondering how to get more people involved?

The best new ski equipment is a helmet, so much more comfortable than a hat, and useful too. I have not been out skiing for about 10 years, so quite outdated, only thing I can recommend if looking for new ski's is consider an all mountain ski vs dedicated type, I have a pair of Atomic Beta race 9.16 and a pair of older Rossignol GS ski's, both are great at what they are intended to do but lack everywhere else, I have rented a couple pair of all mountain years ago and really liked them.

Equipment in the '70s, '80s, through the mid-'90s required a highly dynamic sequence of pressuring the forefoot to engage the ski tip, setting and driving the inside edge of the downhill ski, and -- especially for bump/slalom skiing -- intentionally loading and unloading the tail. Lather, rinse, repeat for each turn. That's why boots of that era (and even a little later) had so much 'ramp angle' built into sole and forward lean in the cuff; "shin bang" was often a badge of honor. The need to intentionally drive skis of the day also necessitated a fairly stiff boot. Try using boots w/the older geometry on modern skis and you're begging to have a miserable day.

Modern skiing (last 12-15 years or so) is based on a more upright and centered fore-aft balanced stance. This is way easier on the hips, knees, and ankles, as well as the lower back (not an insignificant concern for someone my age). Boots are designed with this geometry in mind, and so are modern skis. Modern all-mountain skis are shorter, wider, and -- frankly -- far more versatile than anything built pre-2005 or so. Yes, they're easier to turn than 'straight' skis I grew up on. And easier to ski in light snow (or wet & heavy new snow -- 'creamed corn' -- you're likely to see at Hood). They'll carve like crazy on groomers and as long as you have a reasonably recent tune on them, will hold really well on Cascade Concrete or Sierra Cement (hardpack to the rest of y'all). And yes, a decent mid-level ski can be stable at cruising speeds far higher than I'm now comfortable with, as (or more) stable than the 205 Atomic GS I skied in my 30s. Try to ski them using boots & technique from the '70s/'80s/early '90s, though, and they'll feel super squirrely.

+1000 for a helmet; been using one since the '90s. Felt like a super-dork the first time (this was back when very few people wore one) but I was hooked on the warmth, especially for my ears.

And a good boot fitter can work wonders, even for the bunion-afflicted. With modern moldable shells, custom-molded liners, etc. there isn't much a good fitter can't accommodate.

This is my 46th ski season; I fit boots and sold skis at Fiorini Sports in Seattle for a decade.

Happy to answer anything I can for anyone who's interested.

[QUOTE=Flat Six;11889236]
And a good boot fitter can work wonders, even for the bunion-afflicted. With modern moldable shells, custom-molded liners, etc. there isn't much a good fitter can't accommodate.


Bunion affected here. What do they do to boots to make them open in that area?
If I wear a modern regular ski boot for a day....I suffer for 3 days or more after.

Wow, Flat Six, what a great post.

I still ski my old slalom skis from the 80's, (710-FO) and ski them exactly as described above. - Lang-bang is a feature. ;)

Newer skis have massive side-cuts (great) but don't have the tip-to-tail progressing stiffness, that 'bounces' me out of the turn, nor does the "cap-ski" manufacturing process lend itself to high torsional stiffness. :-/

Seems that if I want anything close to my old, beat-up gear I need to find some racing skis.

Any suggestions?

Used to Ski, now I Snowboard, a helmet is the new addition for those icy place skis work better on.

[QUOTE=stevej37;11889259] Steve, even in the olden days a decent boot fitter could fit for a pretty large bunion. We'd heat the shell and 'punch' it (expand it using a specialty press) to make room. After the boot cools, it retains its new shape. Depending on the specific boot being fit (type & thickness of plastic, mostly) you could safely get up to 3/4 inch extra shell expansion. That's huge, BTW. Below is a photo of the kind of press we used; in this example it's being used to make room for the outer tip of the big toe.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1672956685.jpg

We'd then work on the liner, typically using a combination of compressing the foam liner where it met the head of the protrusion and adding foam around the bunion area, allowing for any pressure to be more evenly distributed around that area of the foot.

There are several current boot models that use custom-molded shells -- essentially your fitter will heat up the shell, you put your foot in it (w/the liner and your footbed inserted), and buckle you up. Fischer boots (ones I'm most familiar with) then essentially apply a vacuum to the whole boot to mold it to your foot/ankle/heel/instep etc. Once it cools, done deal. Here's a decent overview of boots with custom-moldable shells currently available:

https://patriotfootbeds.com/blogs/news/122776711-ski-boots-with-heat-moldable-plastic-shells

Most skiers, though, don't really need custom-molded shells; a good fitter can punch or grind a small spot or two and work wonders. Everyone, IMHO, needs some kind of customized footbed, and most folks would benefit from custom-molded liners.

None of this is cheap, especially compared to when I started skiing (but then again, what is?). When lift tickets are $150+ the price of good-fitting boots makes a lot more sense.

A blast from the past, for sure.

Can you suggest a type or genre of modern ski for me to try? The criteria would be stable, hold turns on steeper and icier slopes, medium radius turns - basically like an old-time GS ski - but doesn’t always require high speed/G to feel right.

Thanks Flat Six for that info.
My bunions, esp the right foot, are severe. Plus I'm 70 years old.
I have a local ski shop in Grand Rapids that I might stop into and check out some boots. The Salomans (sp) that I have now won't work.

I used to just fly out to CO and rent ski's and boots. That day may be done.
I guess it wouldn't be that much more trouble to bring boots with me.

Ski Boots age over time due to UV exposure and other environmental conditions. The plastic will stiffen and become brittle.

Ski bindings have come a long way and lower leg injuries have been greatly reduced over the last 20-30 years. Ski shops will not even adjust older bindings due to liability issues.

For skis I went from 195's to 174's and never looked back. So much easier on the legs and stable at higher speeds.

For those that remember Hanson boots they were really not for expert skiers but were quite comfy. The company went out of business in the early 1980's. Fast forward 40 years Denny Hanson who started Hanson boots is at it again with Apex Boots. It is essentially a snowboard boot that is wrapped with a stiff removable outer shell.

I bought a pair and used them only once so far this year, but they are super comfortable, easy to get into and out of and warm. And they perform on the steep stuff really well. (I am a 50-year ski patrol member). Being older these boots are a game changer for me. Without the shell they are easy to walk in and go up and down stairs.

Island, I think your perspective used to be much more valid than it is today. Back when 'cap' skis were new, your observation about torsional stiffness would have been absolutely spot on. Until then, downhill skis were mostly built using a laminate/sandwich construction, which was torsionally very stiff. Some sandwich cores were further wrapped with composite weaves, typically fiberglass. Skis were heavy, especially at the lengths being skied at the time.

The first cap skis typically used a foam or solid wood core, with a molded fiberglass cap of relatively coarse weave (or even strand) adhered on top; the cap was a structural element of the ski and really didn't sacrifice much in the way of torsional rigidity especially in the low- to mid-level skis this design was used to produce. The problem was that as ski designs moved to shorter lengths with wider underfoot widths and huge sidecut (remember the Elan SCX? Looked like a pair of soup spoons welded handle-to-handle) structural cap designs didn't really work. Volant Skis out of Colorado(?) tried to solve this issue by using a stainless steel cap, and were one of the best-selling brands for a few years of that era.

But other companies made cap skis with very high torsional stiffness. 908/930 mentioned owning Atomic's Beta 9.16; that was a cap ski that nobody would question the stiffness of. Modern skis don't have nearly the sidecut/hourglass shape that late '90s skis did so concerns about sufficient torsional stiffness aren't nearly as important as before. Most use some flavor of laminate construction, some with composite layers/wraps/sections using glass, graphite, and kevlar in much finer filaments than before. Modern skis also have more rocker than your 710s :D:D; this is the tip-to-tail curve as viewed from the side -- kind of like looking at a recurve bow. This allows for much greater flexibility in the stiffness progression and rebound characteristics designed into the ski. Think more 'pop' with less work, especially with a more upright and balanced stance.

If your skiing style is more 'traditional' I'd look first to what I call the 'Germanic-heritage' brands like Atomic, Stockli, Volkl, etc. Their historical design DNA is to deliver stout, energetic, beefy-feeling skis. Not that other manufacturers won't have models that are as lively as you'd like, but IMHO you're more likely to find what you're looking for there.

I'd encourage you to give something new a try; rather than doing a regular rental try a 'performance demo' instead. Assuming you get a good recommendation from your ski shop I think could be pleasantly surprised.

One side note: I think modern skis, because of their width and the interplay between their sidecut (curvature when looking down on the ski), rocker (curvature when looking at the side of the ski), and longitudinal stiffness makes them more likely to ski crappy when their bases and edges have been neglected. Used to be you could maybe ski 40-50 days on straight/skinny skis without getting them tuned, just touch up edges and wax them. Personally I wouldn't ski a modern ski more than 15-20 days without a fresh tune. I'm not nearly the skier I used to be, but I can still feel the difference.

Oh, and adding a beefier power/booster strap to the top of your boot cuffs will help reduce your Lange Bang! SmileWavySmileWavy

Just my $.02.

I too, was a long board skier. Loved my 205 & 207 GS cut Rossis. Skied many many days on them.

I bought some lightly used Volkl Mantra's a year or two ago. Oh my. I have had early shaped skis but these are the BOMB.

Rather than suggesting what to buy, I will suggest that you (whomever is reading and cares) demo skis. My buddy has some very highly thought of skis that I considered buying. They were #2 on my list. I swapped skis for a few runs and they did nothing for me. Him either. He wants my skis!

Another thing. I have pretty nasty sural nerve issues on my left leg. I was getting nerve tested for some other stuff and the Dr. announced it. She tells me that it is from ski boots. When I read about Lange Bang (yes, I skied the orange boots for YEARS), I think about my sadly damaged nerve... Ouch. That sucker HURTS. I do find a hard plastic roller helps significantly. A note.


And, as a parting shot, I will share my vision. A few years back. Mrs. LWJ took me to Whistler for a ski weekend. It was great. But what was really great is that Whistler had more 80+ year old dudes skiing than I have ever seen. I was inspired. Skiing last night in softer, cut up snow really wasn't demanding. No hard jarring. No impacts. Nothing but gentle feedback from my turns. Which, is something I expect to be able to do for a few decades.

Really any of the mid- to higher-level all-mountain skis should work well. I hear you on the steeper/icier slopes. If you're going to ski mostly the Cascades, look for something that's targeted toward all-mountain on-piste (maybe 70/30 or 80/20 on-piste/off piste). Something maybe in the 78mm-82mm width underfoot. Wider underfoot will help in lighter, newer snow but not as frequent as we'd like in the PNW and IMHO you'd be giving up a little traction & confidence on steeper, icier terrain. Just as an example, something in the same class as the Stockli Montero AX might be a good starting point. Be prepared -- I'm 5'10" and more lbs. around the middle than I care to admit, most of the skis I use are in the 165-170cm range.

One thing that may help when transitioning from what I'll call 'traditional' straight skis to modern skis (we'll skip the overly hourglassed 'shaped' skis of the '90s) is that a more upright and balanced stance allows for much greater use of both uphill edges when carving and turning. When I learned to ski it was pretty common to weight the uphill edge of the downhill ski roughly 75-80%, more on steeper slopes. Weight on the uphill ski was primarily just for balance. Now I feel its more like 60-70% and you (ideally) actively use the uphill edge of the uphill ski to turn & carve.

Old dog, new tricks.

70 years old! Good on ya!!! Definitely check out your local ski shop and talk to their head fitter. Understand that boot fitting is a process and it may take a couple of visits to get things dialed in just right. That's one of the reasons I think it's important to work with a local shop if you can.

In the context of carting along ski clothes, gloves, goggles, helmet, etc., traveling with boots is no big deal. My skis are so much shorter now, they're not an issue either, really.

Oh, and for anyone who skis and doesn't have one yet, get yourself a heated boot bag. Keeps the shells warm and pliable, making them -- I kid you not -- orders of magnitude easier to put on. Plus you put your feet into toasty warm boots and IME makes for a way more comfortable and enjoyable day. Plug into the wall and warm them up overnight, 12V cigarette plug keeps them warm on the way up the hill. Best skiing-related purchase I've made in the last 10 years.

Great advice. Remember that most shops (both local and on-hill) will apply your rental/demo fees toward your purchase of a new pair. If you can't demo a ski before you buy, understand very clearly the seller's return/exchange policy before you part with your $$$$$.