Automatic Watering System

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Superman

This is a question I will be asking: Can this system have full (city water supply) pressure inside the line?

I don't see any reason to. If you limit the volume of water emission from the watering system you will limit the pressure loss. You don't want water flooding the area, you want it to have time to permeate the soil. If you are applying water slowly you can leave the water on 12 hours a day. At 2 GPH per tree even that is a lot of water.
One of the problems I have with the soaker hoses is the water emission rate is built into the hose. There is no way to throttle the output to suit your needs unless you turn down the pressure, which starves the far reaches of the hose of water.

[quicksix]

Dig a hole next to or near your Thuja, about the same depth and width as the ball and burlap they came out of.
Fill it with water, let that volume drain out. while the sides are still wet fill again and time(roughly) the amount of time it takes to go dry. That is your percolation rate.
You can then adjust the parameters of your drip system (volume, frequency and duration) to provide adequate water for the top 5/6 inches of soil. Deeply water 1-2 a week. Change one parameter at a time.
Water at drip line, because the the root tips are where the root hairs actually take up water. (Transpirational pull)

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Superman

Targa, I would not expect better distribution with lower pressure. I would expect the opposite. If there were 60 psi of pressure in the hose, then that same pressure would likely be found at the end of the hose. This is a question I will be asking: Can this system have full (city water supply) pressure inside the line?

Not sure what you mean by distribution.

Sounds like water pressure high enough to stream water out of the holes?

Not what you want.

You want to water slow, hence dripping, soaking.

When you water too fast it doesn't have time to soak in and you'll have more water running off than going in the ground where you want it.

[Baz]

FYI: there is some technology involved where the drip holes (emitters) are that ensure equal distribution of water along the entire length of the dripline. Other features include a back flush each watering and prevention of root intrusion.

[Baz]

Like I said, I have been using drip tubing for many years without any issues. It's the most efficient way to water - when used in the appropriate application.

Many photos in my files showing it's use.

Here is a couple from a project of mine way back in 2002.

How else would you water this narrow bed?

A great visual in this photo showing the wetted soil areas after the system was run a short period of time....





That was just to test the system. Pull out the tubing - then plant - then lay in the tubing along the plantings.....





Then add mulch.....my SC photo bombing my shot there.....



Boom.....

[Superman]

Let me try explaining my question this way: Baz says drip volume is the same at every emitter, even along a LONG line. Others say drip volume is uneven. I say that when I chain three soaker hoses together and operate them at a proper low pressure (low enough for them to dribble instead of spray) the last of the three soaker hoses does a poor job of emitting. Most of the water comes out the first of the three hoses. This is why I imagined that a system designed to dribble slowly, despite higher pressure (as I think someone said the Rain Bird system does) would in fact deliver a same or similar volume at the LAST emitter along a 200' line as it delivers at the first emitter.

Somebody said these systems can have fairluy LONG lines with all emitters doing their jobs. I think some pressure would be needed in order to accomplish this.

[Superman]

Oh....and the so-called irrigation supply place nearby turned out to be somebody's house. I'll drive the 15 miles needed to reach a real, commercial supply house with inventory. Just not today.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Superman

....... I say that when I chain three soaker hoses together and operate them at a proper low pressure (low enough for them to dribble instead of spray).......

If you're turning down the faucet, you are reducing volume not pressure..... The last hoses will not get as much water with a reduced volume.

You need a pressure regulator to reduce pressure. https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Bird-PRF07530S-Irrigation-Regulating/dp/B006JZ51MC/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Irrigation+Pressure+Regulator&qid=1679360470&sr=8-4

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Superman

Let me try explaining my question this way: Baz says drip volume is the same at every emitter, even along a LONG line. Others say drip volume is uneven. I say that when I chain three soaker hoses together and operate them at a proper low pressure (low enough for them to dribble instead of spray) the last of the three soaker hoses does a poor job of emitting. Most of the water comes out the first of the three hoses. This is why I imagined that a system designed to dribble slowly, despite higher pressure (as I think someone said the Rain Bird system does) would in fact deliver a same or similar volume at the LAST emitter along a 200' line as it delivers at the first emitter.

Somebody said these systems can have fairly LONG lines with all emitters doing their jobs. I think some pressure would be needed in order to accomplish this.

In the diagram in my post above (#44) you'll see the Rainbird product (as well as the other similar branded products) have pressure compensating technology that ensures even distribution. If the "soaker hoses" you mention you used, do not have that - it's apples and oranges.

[stomachmonkey]

Sup, you are way overthinking this.

I use that same hose all over my yard, front beds, side beds, back beds.

It's what my landscaping company is standardized on.

I don't think I have a single run under 150ft.

I've never had an issue with pressure or uneven distribution.

[Rusty Heap]

Heya, there is a local Craigslist ad for several hundred feet of hose in North Seattle......

https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/grd/d/everett-drip-irrigation-line/7601515684.html

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Sup, you are way overthinking this.

I use that same hose all over my yard, front beds, side beds, back beds.

It's what my landscaping company is standardized on.

I don't think I have a single run under 150ft.

I've never had an issue with pressure or uneven distribution.

These arborvitaes are ubiquitous. I would say every landscaping store, nursery, big box store, home and garden place sells them. Why? Because they are way beyond easy to grow, easy to keep alive and easy to cultivate. They are ‘industrial’ landscaping plants that serve numerous purposes just as Sup is using them.

The biggest problem with arborvitaes is that they are a staple of the deer diet. In urban areas, or fenced yards, after a few years you will have these tiny little arborvitaes popping up all over. Once established, which is very, very easy in even in poor, sandy almost sterile soil even in a subarctic climate, let alone in supplemented black dirt, lightly fertilized with slow release and with regulated water supply, and anywhere south of Minot, ND, they grow and propagate like guppies.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Sup, you are way overthinking this.

This is what I am good at.

Originally Posted by Baz

In the diagram in my post above (#44) you'll see the Rainbird product (as well as the other similar branded products) have pressure compensating technology that ensures even distribution. If the "soaker hoses" you mention you used, do not have that - it's apples and oranges.

I can learn. I do not fully understand how a LONG line of low-pressure emitters can each deliver the same drip rate. I will continue to learn about these systems. That said.......

Originally Posted by dad911

If you're turning down the faucet, you are reducing volume not pressure.....

This, I think, is untrue. With soaker hoses, when I turn down the faucet, the first hose weeps and the last hose does not. Apparently the pressure in the hoses is unequal. When I turn up the faucet, the hoses spray. Quite a distance. Including the last hose. Here, apparently, the pressure in the hose is higher. And evener.

[A930Rocket]

I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I would’ve thought as the length of the pipe goes further, you would need to reduce the size of the pipes to keep up the pressure.

Edit. This may have been covered previously. 🤷🏽*♂️

[Baz]

I will also add your intention to make the 15 mile trek to the irrigation supplier will pay dividends back in the assistance you will get (in theory - depends on the staff there )

One more thing - aside from possibly a filter - depending on your water source - you do not need any other bells and whistles. Just the tubing , maybe a few couplings, and the (round topped) staples. They make a wide variety of drip tube accessories but just for a line of trees you won't need them. You'll also need a way to plumb it to your water source. Maybe get a drip tubing 1/2" male adapter & threaded coupler that converts FPT to FHT (female pipe thread to female hose thread).

Then you can screw the drip tubing to the hose that goes between your timer and drip tubing. I hope that makes sense.

[Superman]

It does make sense, I will get all the guidance available from the irrigation supply place, and I suspect my system will need a pressure regulator. I saw something suggesting they want around 20-30 PSI.

The KISS principle. I'm not going to breathe through this hose on the moons of Jupiter. Tubing, couplers, hose bibb adapter and pressure regulator. As they say in France, "viola!"

[Superman]

How does this look? My plan is to bring that same line, or another if the system has volume problems, so that two curvy lines are watering all sides of these trees. I also plan to cover all this with a couple inches of coarse mulch. The lines have emitters every 12" which provide 0.4 GPH. A pressure regulator was needed, and a handful of fittings, otherwise this system is mighty simple. The guy at the irrigation place was kinda grumpy but still informative.

[Crowbob]

That's gonna be a nice hedge, Supe.

[Superman]

Thank you.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by dad911

If you're turning down the faucet, you are reducing volume not pressure..... The last hoses will not get as much water with a reduced volume.

You need a pressure regulator to reduce pressure. https://www.amazon.com/Rain-Bird-PRF07530S-Irrigation-Regulating/dp/B006JZ51MC/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Irrigation+Pressure+Regulator&qid=1679360470&sr=8-4

Originally Posted by Superman

.....
This, I think, is untrue. With soaker hoses, when I turn down the faucet, the first hose weeps and the last hose does not. Apparently the pressure in the hoses is unequal......

Originally Posted by Superman

...... and I suspect my system will need a pressure regulator. I saw something suggesting they want around 20-30 PSI.
......"

Originally Posted by Superman

...... A pressure regulator was needed,.......

Hmmm.....