I think this ^ is fairly key.

If I understand correctly sleep requires a good shut-down of one's reasoning center (and is why dreams are so inane).

Read: you really can't think yourself to sleep.

Perhaps all you can do is to let your brain stop all of this late-night ...

https://media1.giphy.com/media/eChf4...giphy.gif&ct=g


Or try drugs, to cause your body other stresses to worry about. IDK.

Insomnia sucks...

I've been dealing with it on and off for decades and the only thing that works for me is daily exercise.

Its stress for me mostly.

Lately the stress of illness, surgery, and recovery is certainly the cause. I'm sure it will eventually pass but I also want to actively work towards resolution. Normally it resolves after a week or two - but due to the nature of this its been dragging on for months.

I feel like I'm getting dumber - hoping its not permanent. :D

FWIW, the 8hr sleep model is relatively new in the history of humans.

Literature of old makes reference to "second sleep." Essentially people routinely got up in the middle of the night for whatever reason. Tend to a fire or livestock, IDK. Then they would have their "second sleep."

So perhaps we are more genetically wired for a different rhythm.

I do know that stressing about not sleeping only exacerbates the problem. Knowing that even laying there awake brings many of the benefits of sleep, helps me so I don't stress too hard about not falling asleep.

https://www.sciencealert.com/humans-used-to-sleep-in-two-shifts-maybe-we-should-again

That's a very interesting model.

There it is ^

Thanks, Az

This is generally what I allow myself. The issue is - I don't get "first sleep". Second sleep comes around 2-4A.

I don't let it frustrate me for long. After an hour or two I get up so as not to disturb the Mrs. and go downstairs, read, or just chill. Eventually i do fall asleep. Then I put some time in my calendar for an hour nap during the day.

Even if I'm not sleeping, at least I'm resting.

Trazodone 100mg works for me.

Guys really? ... One word, exercise!

And the associated weight loss will help sleep apnea.

I've never required a lot of sleep ... 5-6 hrs at most... usually less ... never straight through either. 8 hours and I would change my name to Van Winkle. After a few hours ... when I wake .... I'm done.

Trazadone worked for me for quite a while but there is a hangover. I hate it now. I take Costco Sleep Aid (the ingredients are the same as very expensive ZzzQuil for 6 bucks/50 tabs. The Sleep Aid is the kicker or catalyst, if you will, for a dose of Alprazolam.

BTW, ZzzQuil will knock you out. It's fast, but at now 15 bucks a bottle, no thanks.

Rough couple years for me. Stage 4 colon cancer, chemo, surgeries, alot for the brain to process at night.

Lorazapam is my friend. .5mg and I typically fall asleep in 30 minutes. If not, .5mg more.

Never groggy or hung over feeling in the morning.

Cut out booze!
Your situation sounds SO familiar! I had similar sleep problems and thought having a few drinks before bedtime helped me get to sleep. It did, but I woke up after 2-4 hours and couldn't get back to sleep. My sleep specialist had me try Ambien, Doxipin (great dreams, but expensive), and something else I can't remember. (She never mentioned the negative affects alcohol has on sleep - malpractice in my opinion.) It went on for years.

A couple of years ago I stopped drinking alcohol most days and never after 5 PM. I sleep much, much better with NO sleep drugs.

One thing she did mention to me that was some help was to "let it go." Worrying about not sleeping causes stress that keeps you awake. Be grateful for what sleep you can get and move on. Just let your body/mind do what it wants and don't worry about it.

As mentioned above, exercise helps. It doesn't have to be only physical exercise. Sudoku, logic problems, and on-line jigsaw puzzles help focus your mind off of other things and also exercise it. Your brain burns a lot of calories. I tend to get sleepy after a 5 or 6 variable logic puzzle.

+1 .... and particularly on your very last sentence Patrick (edited ... because Patrick did ;) ... the part about ..."letting your body" ...) .... it's awesome that you've got a handle on this now :)!

I remember cautioning you about Ambien after you had an incident too, and you were going through some tough times...

You folks taking Ambien ... just don't! Please find another approach .... the tales of caution are REAL .... I've btdt (with the dangers) and the docs that prescribe it are ..... :(.

Sleep well guyz .... but "just say NO!" to Ambien .... please.

give me a call before you want to go to bed and I’ll bore you to sleep.

You’re going through a lot and I wish you the best of luck in getting your health back.

As others say, alcohol causes sleep problems. Though it helps you fall asleep, once the alcohol leaves your system it pulls you out of sleep.

Caffeine, coffee, colas etc. staying up late, inconsistent bed time. A feeling of "I don't need much sleep, 5 hours is enough", as you age you need more sleep, particularly to deal with stress. These things all contribute to training your brain to stay awake.

Also a dark, cool bedroom, quiet etc. Regular exercise. Etc.

The part about the alcohol sucks, the caffeine too. Oh, and the exercise.

Going to be a different solution for most everyone - it depends a lot of YOUR situation.

Mine?

I had a lot on my mind.

(Don't we all?)

What helped was getting a lot of stuff resolved - and thus getting my life back under control.

In the meantime, like Vash said - just gotta let some of it go - get it out of your damn head!

Diet & exercise do also play a role - but the biggie is all the crap running through your brain 24-7!

My wife is like you Baz. She worries about things. I'm not a worrier, but if I'm trying to solve a problem, whether it is with one of the cars or a household repair/remodel issue, I have trouble getting my mind off of it.

[QUOTE=Solamar;11986751Lorazapam is my friend. .5mg and I typically fall asleep in 30 minutes. If not, .5mg more. Never groggy or hung over feeling in the morning.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes I don't sleep well, and my PCP prescribed Lorazapam, which I took once in a while, since it seemed to reset my sleep pattern. After my PCP guy retired, the next one cancelled the presciption (Kaiser) saying it wasn't safe and could depress breathing. He prescribed Trazodone, which I've tried a few times but will not be taking anymore. It makes me feel "groggy or hung over" the next morning. I wake up fairly frequently at three to four in the monring and don't go back to sleep, however it doesn't seem to bother me during the next day. The sort of on again/off again random pattern is a bother.

Melatonin and moderate exercise (go walk 40 minutes) works wonders.