Not hating electric cars, but an interesting article.

[Bill Douglas]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12317297/Why-electric-car-near-green-think-hidden-eco-pitfalls-NetZero-causes-pin-up.html

[Arizona_928]

EV are only as green as the electricity they use and the slave child labor from the congo(on the manufacturing and recycling end).

[Arizona_928]

Too bad the country is aas backwards and will never make a diesel hybrid.... A drius if you will.

[Bill Douglas]

And by the time they get to the (cost) break even point the batteries are starting to die.

[PorscheGAL]

I see these articles quite frequently. The problem is the authors assume EV owners are all doing it for the environment. Most of the people I know who drive EVs, including myself, have other reasons for EV ownership.

Just a few of mine:
No gas stations
No oil changes
I want to go fast!. 1000HP is awesome

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I want to go fast!. 1000HP is awesome

Don't we all (sometimes, at least)?

At the same time, though, if the purported goal is to reduce emissions, shouldn't making EVs go farther rather than faster be what manufacturers strive for?

_

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

I see these articles quite frequently. The problem is the authors assume EV owners are all doing it for the environment. Most of the people I know who drive EVs, including myself, have other reasons for EV ownership.

Just a few of mine:
No gas stations
No oil changes
I want to go fast!. 1000HP is awesome

I didn't buy my Volt to do anything for the environment, it was all about the dollars for me.

With my Volt, the only advantage I share with you is no Gas Stations, and that is limited. I fill the 9 gallon tank about every three months. Every time I put $90 worth of gas in the Tundra (and that is also about every 3 months) I am thankful that I do most of my driving in an electric car powered by the solar panels on my barn.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Norm K

Don't we all (sometimes, at least)?

At the same time, though, if the purported goal is to reduce emissions, shouldn't making EVs go farther rather than faster be what manufacturers strive for?

_

Everyone wants to compartmentalize EVs.

There is no one "purported goal."
Some are for reducing emissions, some are for having fun, some are for saving money. I understand that some people buy them because they think they are saving the planet, but I haven't personally met one of these folks yet.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I didn't buy my Volt to do anything for the environment, it was all about the dollars for me.

With my Volt, the only advantage I share with you is no Gas Stations, and that is limited. I fill the 9 gallon tank about every three months. Every time I put $90 worth of gas in the Tundra (and that is also about every 3 months) I am thankful that I do most of my driving in an electric car powered by the solar panels on my barn.

Do you put a fuel treatment to extend the health/life of the fuel in the gas tank if a tank lasts 9 months?

[red-beard]

Lithium-ion is a dead end. The power density barely allows EVs to make sense.

Two technologies underway: Calcium Ion and Sodium Ion. The first commercial sodium ion batteries are out. Either of these batteries will allow twice the range for half the weight. A "true" 400 mile EV including load for heat/AC.

And sodium/calcium are cheap and readily available and recyclable.

The true hold back for EVs is the electric grid. Variable Renewable Electricity (Wind/Solar) does not match up with demand. Until we have a reliable storage system, they will continue to cause problems.

Look up "Duck Curve" to understand the issue. The

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve

[David]

My response to arguments against EV's due to grid constraints is the arguments assume a dumb charging system. The system would work just fine with EV's communicating real time with the grid. They can charge when pricing is favorable to buy and discharge when pricing is favorable to sell. And when you have a big trip coming up, they'll know not to discharge anything so you have a full charge.

But I agree, battery technology has a way to go before everyone gets on board.

Here's today's Texas wind and solar generation. Peak wind at night and peak solar during the day. It's not a flat line but it's not terrible either. Texas' wind generation is pretty mature but solar is still on a steep climb so there will be much more solar capacity during the day in the next few years.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

. I understand that some people buy them because they think they are saving the planet, but I haven't personally met one of these folks yet.

My experience is nearly 180 degrees opposed of yours.

_

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by masraum

Do you put a fuel treatment to extend the health/life of the fuel in the gas tank if a tank lasts 9 months?

No. I use the ICE often enough that the fuel has never gotten more than around 6 months old.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Too bad the country is aas backwards and will never make a diesel hybrid.... A drius if you will.

Worst car we ever had was a Volvo XC90 T6, inline 6 with twin turbo. It got around 17mpg.

In ROW on the XC90, they had a diesel that averaged around 35mpg.

Edit: so yes, we are bassackwards

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by David

Here's today's Texas wind and solar generation.

I really hate wind generators. They are ugly and some people say they cause cancer.

We have a lot of wide open spaces that could host solar panels. Our local strip mall has acres of parking lots and flat roofs to put solar panels on.
I hope the future is going to be electricity generated by solar and nuclear. If we can get rid of our dependence on a globally traded commodity (petroleum) we would be energy independent and our energy supply would not be subject to world politics.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by David

My response to arguments against EV's due to grid constraints is the arguments assume a dumb charging system. The system would work just fine with EV's communicating real time with the grid. They can charge when pricing is favorable to buy and discharge when pricing is favorable to sell. And when you have a big trip coming up, they'll know not to discharge anything so you have a full charge.

But I agree, battery technology has a way to go before everyone gets on board.

Here's today's Texas wind and solar generation. Peak wind at night and peak solar during the day. It's not a flat line but it's not terrible either. Texas' wind generation is pretty mature but solar is still on a steep climb so there will be much more solar capacity during the day in the next few years.

the car companies are going even farther than this.

no only do you charge em during the day, you have MASSIVE processing power plugged into a network, all day, just sitting there.

cars become part of the cloud. now you sell your processing power back to the cloud, while the car is charging.

thats where its going.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

Worst car we ever had was a Volvo XC90 T6, inline 6 with twin turbo. It got around 17mpg.

In ROW on the XC90, they had a diesel that averaged around 35mpg.

Edit: so yes, we are bassackwards

on fuely, these seem to get around 23.

diesel is 100% not the technology going forward.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

cars become part of the cloud. now you sell your processing power back to the cloud, while the car is charging.

thats where its going.

https://www.infoworld.com/article/2611599/video--watch-what-happens-when-a-prius-gets-hacked.html
For example, making the speedometer read 199mph makes the car think it actually is going 199mph, which brings its safety systems into play. In fact, Valasek and Miller ask Greenberg to turn off the car after their speedometer prank, most likely to head off the car deploying its airbag when its speed drops rapidly from 199mph to the actual number, which the car would interpret as a crash.

They also cause the steering wheel to jerk around by making the car think it's in reverse and activating the auto-park feature, and thanks to their hacks, the car's brake pedal ceased to work entirely.

[aigel]

The solution to the duck curve is daytime charging, i.e. at work.

Switching to EV for the environment is pretty stupid. The goal should be to have less cars and miles traveled. The move to EVs isn’t saving the environment, just the auto industry!

[Evans, Marv]

I weighed the factor of battery production against getting an EV when I first considered it. However the pros greatly outweighed the cons. One is I feel good about the EV is screwing over the petroleum companies, which charge about the highest per gallon prices in the country here. The other is screwing over the power company, which charges about the highest rates in the country here. Another is lack of & ease of maintenance. At 81, although I do more than most, I don't enjoy doing the usual maintainance on cars. With our solar panels (& being on the net metering program), we spend almost nothing to operate our house & my wife's car. I have my Ford T-350 for towing and hauling (I can get 4x8 sheets of plywood, sheet rock, etc in the back), and like to use it for camping in the desert and trips to the mountains. So for this period of time, I feel like I've made choices that are working out the best for us.