Opinion on what's going on with shower tile ?

Deschodt · 09:40 AM

We've got this shower that's not all that old, maybe 7 years. Same tile all over the bathroom, it seems the grout used is efflorescing here and there - getting white in places that I've had to clean with acid... so I am thinking bad grout all over. But, on the side of the shower in the dry zone, and oddly only there (not in the WET areas) it seems the side tile is departing, I'd say 4-5mm off... I figured it could possibly be pushed out by.... guessing: bad grout/mortar or water infiltration/swollen wood ? (more logical)... the thing is I checked, there are zero grout defects inside the shower on that "bench" that would allow water inside that structure.. That's outside the glass too, so furthest away from any water if there was any. Also there is zero water ever coming out of that "crack area", none at all. Just the tile that appears to want to make a break for it all by itself...

What do you think it may be ? I'm game to trying to take it out by dremeling the grout or something, but I'd like some guesses from people who know tile more than I do (basically everyone) ;-)

Bugsinrugs · 08-01-2023, 10:37 AM

What is the tile adhered to? Cement board? Floating mortar? Wood? A floated mortar bed won’t do that. That seems like wood swelling to me.

DerkPerk · 08-01-2023, 10:41 AM

Is there any sort of membrane installed under the tile, over the structure?

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look 171 · 08-01-2023, 01:02 PM

You got water going back there causing it to swell. Time to pull it rebuilt it. Someone got sloppy and didn't water proof it well or no water proofing at all. I bet someone stuck the tiles over cement board without any tar paper under there.

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

I know a gy that can do it pretty cheap!

JavaBrewer · JavaBrewer's Garage

Agree water is under there somewhere. Only fix is to pull it out and redo. Bummer

RobFrost · 08-01-2023, 01:57 PM

Not all grout is waterproof. Never used a tub of pre mixed wet grout, only a bag of dry powder.

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drcoastline · 08-01-2023, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deschodt

We've got this shower that's not all that old, maybe 7 years. Same tile all over the bathroom, it seems the grout used is efflorescing here and there - getting white in places that I've had to clean with acid... so I am thinking bad grout all over. But, on the side of the shower in the dry zone, and oddly only there (not in the WET areas) it seems the side tile is departing, I'd say 4-5mm off... I figured it could possibly be pushed out by.... guessing: bad grout/mortar or water infiltration/swollen wood ? (more logical)... the thing is I checked, there are zero grout defects inside the shower on that "bench" that would allow water inside that structure.. That's outside the glass too, so furthest away from any water if there was any. Also there is zero water ever coming out of that "crack area", none at all. Just the tile that appears to want to make a break for it all by itself...

What do you think it may be ? I'm game to trying to take it out by dremeling the grout or something, but I'd like some guesses from people who know tile more than I do (basically everyone) ;-)

As crazy as it sounds, I am guessing the substrate is green sheetrock that meets code in many places. The expansion and contraction from the heating up and cooling down probably caused a hairline crack that you may not have noticed especially if you looked when it closed after cooling down. all of the materials will expand and contract at different rates inevitably causing a crack. It appears the green tile is in the wet zone and has an open joint. Even a minor amount of water or even just the damp environment/steam will permit moisture to enter and will exacerbate over time. I am thinking the sheetrock is expanding.

Zeke · 08-01-2023, 02:41 PM

That's a lot of outward movement. All those light colored tiles need to come out.

Tobra · Tobra's Garage

Trekkor is a tile guy

911 Rod · 911 Rod's Garage

It's all in the prep as they say.
If you patch it you will need something flexible like silicone.
I'd be pi##ed if I paid someone that did this. If I want it fuc#ed up I could have done it myself!

Zeke · 08-02-2023, 05:49 AM

So am I. It's jacked up.

Deschodt · 07:15 AM

Ok thanks all for the (bad but predictably so) news. So let me ask a bonus question - Is there a way in hell I can pull these side tiles in a non destructive way and have a look at the interior damage ? If I cut the grout (with what? Dremel, special tool that cuts grout and not tile?) and gently pull on the tile with plastic trim tools, do I have a shot ?

Based on the water infiltration comments I went and looked again closer with a flashlight and I DID find a crack in the grout in one (wet side) spot. It's very small though and nowhere else on that bench seat - very close to the edge where the swelling is, so I am hoping it's limited in scope and that if I resealed that (grout and then silicone), opened it up from the outside, cut the probably wet backing and dried the inside and redid the sheetrock/re-cemented the tile I could avoid MAJOR$ surgery. Fooling myself much ? I'd rather not repaint the whole car if I can blend in the rear door if you know what I mean.. (just ate a big plumbing bill $$)

look 171 · 08-02-2023, 08:09 AM

Nothing you do will prevent the seepage into the substrate. The waterproofing is in the back, beyond the backer board so sealing or grout will not help. Try to pry the tile out with a small metal pry bar. A plastic trim tool will not do much unless the tile is already loose. You have nothing to lose at this point. Its has to be redone. There's movement back there and the first sign is loose grout.

look 171 · 08-02-2023, 08:12 AM

I will give you a glimpse of hope and hope they put too much water in the grout mix causing it to fall out over time. Did that big tile moved outward or was it flush at one time with the top tile on the seat?

Deschodt · 08-02-2023, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

Nothing you do will prevent the seepage into the substrate. The waterproofing is in the back, beyond the backer board so sealing or grout will not help.

Thanks for the reply. I do not understand the above though. I mean OK the waterproofing is in the back but IF i sealed the grout properly, you are saying water would still come through ? Grout is porous ? (if so, ****)

Yes that big tile moved over the past year, the first 6-7 years or so it was flush with the rest.

look 171 · 08-02-2023, 08:40 AM

Yes, grout is porous. I bet its leaking from elsewhere not just the grout or the front of the seat. Sometimes, water seeps back there, cause the lumber to expand and it does not dry due to lack of air movement.

Water gets behind the vertical wall trying to work its way out back under the tile on the seat. Sometimes a genius will put a nail through the backer board on the flat surface and its all it takes for water to seep inside. Once the lumber is wet enough to expand, it will rip the water proofing more causing more damage.

Is that the only spot that's bad?

Pry it out to have a look, there's nothing to lose now. You have extra tile hanging around?

Deschodt · 08-02-2023, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

Is that the only spot that's bad?

Pry it out to have a look, there's nothing to lose now. You have extra tile hanging around?

affirmative on both ;-) Thanks ! will be fun to find out anyway..

Bugsinrugs · 08-02-2023, 09:50 AM

When I did tile I always did a thick bed install. Labor intensive but never had a leak.

john70t · 08-02-2023, 09:56 AM

There might be a special wide chisel for that with heat. IDK. The structure is probably trashed.

In addition to grout sealer (silicone i think), you might want to use GelGloss spray wax when dry. Don't breathe it. Spray on the lines thick and wipe across the tiles. Buff. Keeps it nice and clean. Not too slippery. That's what I used when re-grouting my small white shower tile with sandable grout in a tube. Also a plastic shower with heavy calcium buildup and water spotting. Looks great afterwards. No problems so far.