Really neat new engine
 

I'm in the believe it when I see it school. Sounds too good to be true. Also, hydrogen mentioned as a fuel source. Has there been a breakthough in hydrogen production? I thought it took more energy to produce hydrogen than it contains...

big difference between must and can use Hydrogen

160hp from a 30 odd pound 25k rpm motor, think of what you can do w/ gearing

Cool, but about the 6th ringing of the loud bell noise I had to abandon the video. That's nonsense.

However, I did get far enough to hear the narrator say that since Chrysler no one has approached the idea of a turbine for land use, just in the air.

Meet Andy Granatelli.

Watch the whole thing, it' not a turbine

it's a four stroke gas engine w/ no reciprocating parts, just 2 parallel rotors, no apex seals like Wankel needed. It can be scaled up, 4 rotors =320hp, 6 rotors =480hp etc.

80% thermal efficiency is amazing

The video is aimed at a certain audience…

Do they have a working prototype? What are the initial performance numbers?

Gas turbines don’t make sense operating outside of their fairly narrow design window. They just can’t be turned down efficiently. This and gearing challenges were the death nail for Chrysler’s turbine cars.

Lots of sealing required in the design. Conveniently, how the sealing works was not discussed.

I'm not intelligent enough to understand all he's trying to show us, or if this is a viable technology or not, but I know for certain that the presentation certainly insults what intelligence I do have.

I would have loved to but it was annoying. Not your fault. But the guy did apparently reference turbines having spent much of the beginning talking about the Chrysler. So I was left with the impression he was going with.

Just because a video looks slick and well produced does not mean it is. This pn was borderline terrible. Sorry, I wanted to see it, but I don't do nonsense.

Just watch the video
yes, and you can actually see and hear it run, it's not asa turbine it's a 4 stroke gas engine

yes and he also mentioned Wankles and the pitfalls that each ran into

Then stick your head back in the sand, no wonder this country is in such turmoil when people won't assimilate new information

Watch the video, you can see and hear it

they have a running prototype and are looking for someone to licence and run w/ it

Slashdot posting on it- i"d be checking that later for the engineers and other geeks postings

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/17/0426252/what-happens-when-you-cross-a-gas-turbine-with-an-internal-combustion-engine

Tech aside..
That AI-created video was mostly unwatchable. It bounces all over the place, missing information, glamorous generalize statements with no purpose, etc. The engine might have been AI designed as well for all we know. I might be missing something here.

Basically it's a gear type arraignment between two cylinders where tooth interaction creates a micro combustion chamber while it expands and creates an even longer expanding 'cylinder'. ~ 50-95% on the flame front is not pushing on the parts which are supposed to make it move. The intake and spark plug are all crammed into the wedge and the air has to make a sharp turn there. Only more boost could create more power because there's no room for bigger valves. Think huge wasted surface seal-sweep area and path. Way too much quench. The c/c appears to be kinda like a long stroke engine cylinder with a short rod where the cylinder doesn't get more than a tenth up to the top. I'm not sure how it improves over existing designs. I hope it works as advertised and improves society blah blah but remain skeptical.

I've seen a similar experimental designs which were similar, such as a giant gear surrounded by a ring of miniature Wankles acting on it.
These designs are really neat but when put into practical application there are all sorts of additional problems which will pop up.
I love the efforts though.
Someday there will be a major breakthrough.

There was another recent story about a teen who thought up replacing brake rotors with motors to turn any gas auto into a hybrid. Big splash. Cool idea. Except hub motors have been around for more than a hundred years already. A better location to add a motor would be at the flywheel, or driveshaft/CVs, or as a combo alternator-starter-motor on the crank. And adding extra un-sprung weight at the wheels really screws up performance. Plus there is all that wiring to the extra batteries in the spare tire spot. And how to activate the system per driver input. Extra exposure to vibration water etc.

As a sidebar, in 1960 you could buy a rocket motor to bolt onto your rear axle.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/1960-buy-mail-order-1300hp-rocket-engine/

Oh don't be pissy because I critized the messenger instead of the message. If I have my head in the sand it's only because I can't stand the Tic Tok type sound effects of whoosh, ping, ring, pop and all that poop.

I watch hours of YT daily; it's my TV. I choose whether to be subjected or subdued by the initial content. If I don't like uptalking AI generated narration, my prerogative to move on.

Yes, I criticized your video recommendation based on presentation. I'm sure the technology will be passed around soon enough for me to learn while enjoying instead of having my ears blown out (headphones) by unwanted, too loud annoying noises intended to be audible exclamation points.

It really pisses me off when someone throws an unwanted high volume noise at me. I hate it at the movies too. That effect is over used to startle the audience.

Frankly I see this as a way to warn others of the technique. It hurts.

That could be important. Very interesting. Thanks.

Every now and then, new IC engine pops up as "game changer". Then fizzles out. There is one thing piston engines are really good at: keeping combustion chamber area/volume ratio as low as possible, which keeps thermodynamic losses low. There are probably smaller/stronger engine designs but at this point, a sunset of IC engine, it is unlikely as major company will pour money into another design...

spark ignition street car will have ~35%+/- thermal efficiency at best, Diesel in the high 40s

Astrom claims 80% true or not it's a remarkable engine w/ basically 4 moving parts, no wobble, no reciprocation, just pure rotary motion that apparently goes Diesel at higher rpm. Also no seals. Just tight tolerances and precise alignment using Ti as the main material, also zero to no harmful emissions.

sure it needs development but the potential is enormous


sounds like a buddy's 250cc BSA thumper from back in the day.

Ok. Fully understood. Thanks.

The list of benefits states no apex seals which I believe were the bane of the Wankel. Still, the mating surfaces have to see some wear, but not watching the first vid, IDK if that is addressed. Subsequent reading indicates 100,000 hours before overhaul. That's a long time as most of what it would be powering could be past its useful life well before that.

1000 RPM idle with a 25,000 redline. I rather think this is a low torque affair, but again a non-narrated video only serves to show exactly how the thing works, not how it performs.

There were never many details about Jocko Johnson's engine that was a circular affair called the Power Ring. His had 18 'cylinders' and it was supposedly a "3-cycle" operation. It was never actually built that I know of. His claims of power to size and weight were similar. 18 points of combustion suggests a lot of torque.

Johnson focused on the problems inherent to the reciprocal engine. Since he lived in the world of nitro powered piston engines, he wanted to eliminate cranks and rods. These things have worked for us for nearly a century and a half while many alternatives have never really changed anything. When you think about it, that isn't very logical.

The electric motor is perfect. The infrastructure and energy source is not.

I should bear the original video before commenting further.

The M1A1 tank has a turbine-electric drive but is a fuel hog with limited range. Granted, there are a few extra pounds of armor and weapons on that. Using that engine with electric assist in common daily driver transportation might or might not be beneficial. It it purely drove a generator it could be fine-tuned into something very efficient and even have cross-platform uses. idk.

It's efficiency might be "disruptive technology" to the existing otto-cycle industry. There are variable piston height(ie compression ratio) designs out there waiting to be used. The electric motor as a plate configuration instead of a cylinder is infinitely more efficient (think breaker bar). I always wanted to see lightweight dual opposing pistons and rotary valves. The perfect combustion chamber might exist yet. The rest of the power plant just has to be designed around it.

carnot has an issue with the 80% thermodynamic efficiency claim. even double and triple cycle power plants are not beating 50%.

There are no mating surfaces and no seals wrt air/fuel system, the prototype does have a bad oil leak, just like the crank seals on 911s that often leak

seal is kept by tight tolerances and use of low expansion Tii components

sure electric is attractive but the e-cars are all very heavy and charging can be a real issue

currently hybrid is the way o go but even they are awfully heavy Prius comes in at 3100 to 3200#s a BMW X5m 6100#, X% 50e 5573#

heck my 4 Runner V8 is a comparatively svelte 4500#

I love how investors fork out $$$ without checking in with Carnot. Was the compression ratio mentioned? It's all for the good - some engineers get to play around with the thing for a few years, that would be fun for sure.

Shhh..."I want to believe!" :D

Sounds to me like the hecklers of Herr Disel back in 1893

Concentrate on the potential not the nits

I see no provisions for any method of cooling. That was the first thing that got me wondering.

Beyond that, not enough solid information from which to form any sort of an opinion. Like uncle billy said, the video is clearly aimed at a "certain kind" of audience. An audience that is easily impressed, and really doesn't know enough to even know what to ask. AI generated smoke and mirrors.

Good point re. cooling. They don't need cooling because it is so efficient. ;-)

There did appear to be a number of water lines, and a significant leak...might have been water.

Yup, it's leaking something all over the floor when it's "running". And the "running" example has more lines going to it that the CAD model used to generate the various exploded views. So, maybe...

Nothing labeled as such in any of their CAD views however, as well detailed as everything else seems to be. In the end, though, like I said - just not enough to really go on. Presentation appears targeted at an audience that won't ask inconvenient questions like that.

if anyone paid attention they did mention 'air-cooled"

There was another pretty neat new engine technology when I was a youngster reading HotRod magazine; the Hot Vapor engine being developed by Smokey Yunick. A lot of magazines gave this engine a lot of editorial space, (Yunick had a great gift for self-promotion) and apparently it came pretty close to production in 1990. There's a ton of internet on this invention and the problems both technological and political that kept if from seeing widespread use.

This story has been repeated time and time again during the industrial age and it's against this backdrop that I think the idea of a radical new engine will always fight for existence. Yes, someday a radical breakthrough may happen, but for way over a century, for the entire lifespan of the automobile as practical and useful transportation, the ICE using reciprocating rod technology has been the easiest to control and produce. (and seal).


http://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hrdp-1009-what-ever-happened-to-smokeys-hot-vapor-engine/

With regards to pre-heating:
The Civic CVCC https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/1974-honda-civic-cvcc-review-drive-history-price used a (third-valve small richer chamber) to ignite the (larger) lean mixture. Lean burns hotter so this was perfect for the bottom of the stroke. It used any kind of gas with no cat and got great mileage. My dream car as well.