Really neat new engine

[Bill Verburg]

Astron Engine

[pwd72s]

I'm in the believe it when I see it school. Sounds too good to be true. Also, hydrogen mentioned as a fuel source. Has there been a breakthough in hydrogen production? I thought it took more energy to produce hydrogen than it contains...

[Bill Verburg]

big difference between must and can use Hydrogen

160hp from a 30 odd pound 25k rpm motor, think of what you can do w/ gearing

[Zeke]

Cool, but about the 6th ringing of the loud bell noise I had to abandon the video. That's nonsense.

However, I did get far enough to hear the narrator say that since Chrysler no one has approached the idea of a turbine for land use, just in the air.

Meet Andy Granatelli.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Cool, but about the 6th ringing of the loud bell noise I had to abandon the video. That's nonsense.

However, I did get far enough to hear the narrator say that since Chrysler no one has approached the idea of a turbine for land use, just in the air.

Meet Andy Granatelli.

Watch the whole thing, it' not a turbine

it's a four stroke gas engine w/ no reciprocating parts, just 2 parallel rotors, no apex seals like Wankel needed. It can be scaled up, 4 rotors =320hp, 6 rotors =480hp etc.

80% thermal efficiency is amazing

[unclebilly]

The video is aimed at a certain audience…

Do they have a working prototype? What are the initial performance numbers?

Gas turbines don’t make sense operating outside of their fairly narrow design window. They just can’t be turned down efficiently. This and gearing challenges were the death nail for Chrysler’s turbine cars.

[hcoles]

Lots of sealing required in the design. Conveniently, how the sealing works was not discussed.

[herr_oberst]

I'm not intelligent enough to understand all he's trying to show us, or if this is a viable technology or not, but I know for certain that the presentation certainly insults what intelligence I do have.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Watch the whole thing, it' not a turbine

it's a four stroke gas engine w/ no reciprocating parts, just 2 parallel rotors, no apex seals like Wankel needed. It can be scaled up, 4 rotors =320hp, 6 rotors =480hp etc.

80% thermal efficiency is amazing

I would have loved to but it was annoying. Not your fault. But the guy did apparently reference turbines having spent much of the beginning talking about the Chrysler. So I was left with the impression he was going with.

Just because a video looks slick and well produced does not mean it is. This pn was borderline terrible. Sorry, I wanted to see it, but I don't do nonsense.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The video is aimed at a certain audience…

Do they have a working prototype? What are the initial performance numbers?

Gas turbines don’t make sense operating outside of their fairly narrow design window. They just can’t be turned down efficiently. This and gearing challenges were the death nail for Chrysler’s turbine cars.

Just watch the video
yes, and you can actually see and hear it run, it's not asa turbine it's a 4 stroke gas engine

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I would have loved to but it was annoying. Not your fault. But the guy did apparently reference turbines having spent much of the beginning talking about the Chrysler. So I was left with the impression he was going with.

Just because a video looks slick and well produced does not mean it is. This pn was borderline terrible. Sorry, I wanted to see it, but I don't do nonsense.

yes and he also mentioned Wankles and the pitfalls that each ran into

Then stick your head back in the sand, no wonder this country is in such turmoil when people won't assimilate new information

Watch the video, you can see and hear it

they have a running prototype and are looking for someone to licence and run w/ it

[id10t]

Slashdot posting on it- i"d be checking that later for the engineers and other geeks postings

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/17/0426252/what-happens-when-you-cross-a-gas-turbine-with-an-internal-combustion-engine

"Here is another radical replacement for the traditional combustion engine," writes long-time Slashdot reader Inzkeeper. "Check out the Astron Aerospace H2 Starfire Omega 1... an ICE engine with a turbine configuration."

The company "is claiming that it is a viable alternative to EVs," reports TopSpeed:
Astron have showcased a 3D rendering of their engine which helps to understand this extremely complicated new powerplant in all of its glory. They also showed a functioning prototype which gives us a glimpse into how the engine could potentially function... The company claims that it weighs an absolutely mind-boggling 35 pounds yet produces horsepower in the region of 160 and about 170 pound-feet of torque. These are insane figures. The Omega 1 boasts an alleged 60 percent efficiency, which is absurd if true given that piston engines rarely ever top 40 percent efficiency. On top of this, Omega 1 can run on any kind of combustible fuel, meaning that hydrogen could easily be used to reduce emissions so close to zero that it's negligible.

HotCars adds that "According to Astron Aerospace, the engine idles at 1,000 rpm and redlines at an incredible 25,000 rpm — much higher than all the other rotaries we've seen. This is thanks to the circular movement, rather than the epitrochoidal movement used for Reuleaux triangle rotaries."
The awesome thing about this engine is that it is stackable, meaning two of them will make 320 hp and 340 lb-ft, three will produce 480 hp and 510 lb-ft, etc... Astron Aerospace also stated that due to the design, the engine is easily scalable for other applications — for instance, marine engines. According to them and one of their renders, a larger version can easily reach 4,500 hp...

[I]t is not only more efficient than the equivalent piston engine — 80% compared to a mere 34% — but the engine is also much smaller and lighter. This translates to better fuel economy and a lighter overall vehicle. The engine is air-cooled as well, which means there aren't any additional radiators or other cooling systems needed to keep the engine working. Air-cooled may sound a bit old-fashioned, but in this case, it simplifies the whole package. The maintenance on such an engine would also be minimal, with Astron Aerospace claiming 60,000 miles further usage over a typical piston engine before maintenance is required.

The disadvantage of this engine is that it hasn't yet been thoroughly tested in real-world conditions. Astron Aerospace has patented the engine and has a working prototype but has found no investors to begin mass testing and production. The engine needs to be worked hard to flesh out any potential weak points and new materials need to be used to cope with the internal stresses and wear.

[john70t]

Tech aside..
That AI-created video was mostly unwatchable. It bounces all over the place, missing information, glamorous generalize statements with no purpose, etc. The engine might have been AI designed as well for all we know. I might be missing something here.

Basically it's a gear type arraignment between two cylinders where tooth interaction creates a micro combustion chamber while it expands and creates an even longer expanding 'cylinder'. ~ 50-95% on the flame front is not pushing on the parts which are supposed to make it move. The intake and spark plug are all crammed into the wedge and the air has to make a sharp turn there. Only more boost could create more power because there's no room for bigger valves. Think huge wasted surface seal-sweep area and path. Way too much quench. The c/c appears to be kinda like a long stroke engine cylinder with a short rod where the cylinder doesn't get more than a tenth up to the top. I'm not sure how it improves over existing designs. I hope it works as advertised and improves society blah blah but remain skeptical.

I've seen a similar experimental designs which were similar, such as a giant gear surrounded by a ring of miniature Wankles acting on it.
These designs are really neat but when put into practical application there are all sorts of additional problems which will pop up.
I love the efforts though.
Someday there will be a major breakthrough.

There was another recent story about a teen who thought up replacing brake rotors with motors to turn any gas auto into a hybrid. Big splash. Cool idea. Except hub motors have been around for more than a hundred years already. A better location to add a motor would be at the flywheel, or driveshaft/CVs, or as a combo alternator-starter-motor on the crank. And adding extra un-sprung weight at the wheels really screws up performance. Plus there is all that wiring to the extra batteries in the spare tire spot. And how to activate the system per driver input. Extra exposure to vibration water etc.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by john70t

A better location to add a motor would be at the flywheel, or driveshaft/CVs,

As a sidebar, in 1960 you could buy a rocket motor to bolt onto your rear axle.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/1960-buy-mail-order-1300hp-rocket-engine/

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

yes and he also mentioned Wankles and the pitfalls that each ran into

Then stick your head back in the sand, no wonder this country is in such turmoil when people won't assimilate new information

Watch the video, you can see and hear it

they have a running prototype and are looking for someone to licence and run w/ it

Oh don't be pissy because I critized the messenger instead of the message. If I have my head in the sand it's only because I can't stand the Tic Tok type sound effects of whoosh, ping, ring, pop and all that poop.

I watch hours of YT daily; it's my TV. I choose whether to be subjected or subdued by the initial content. If I don't like uptalking AI generated narration, my prerogative to move on.

Yes, I criticized your video recommendation based on presentation. I'm sure the technology will be passed around soon enough for me to learn while enjoying instead of having my ears blown out (headphones) by unwanted, too loud annoying noises intended to be audible exclamation points.

It really pisses me off when someone throws an unwanted high volume noise at me. I hate it at the movies too. That effect is over used to startle the audience.

Frankly I see this as a way to warn others of the technique. It hurts.

[Bill Verburg]

Here's a better one, no noises

[LWJ]

That could be important. Very interesting. Thanks.

[beepbeep]

Every now and then, new IC engine pops up as "game changer". Then fizzles out. There is one thing piston engines are really good at: keeping combustion chamber area/volume ratio as low as possible, which keeps thermodynamic losses low. There are probably smaller/stronger engine designs but at this point, a sunset of IC engine, it is unlikely as major company will pour money into another design...

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Every now and then, new IC engine pops up as "game changer". Then fizzles out. There is one thing piston engines are really good at: keeping combustion chamber area/volume ratio as low as possible, which keeps thermodynamic losses low. There are probably smaller/stronger engine designs but at this point, a sunset of IC engine, it is unlikely as major company will pour money into another design...

spark ignition street car will have ~35%+/- thermal efficiency at best, Diesel in the high 40s

Astrom claims 80% true or not it's a remarkable engine w/ basically 4 moving parts, no wobble, no reciprocation, just pure rotary motion that apparently goes Diesel at higher rpm. Also no seals. Just tight tolerances and precise alignment using Ti as the main material, also zero to no harmful emissions.

sure it needs development but the potential is enormous


sounds like a buddy's 250cc BSA thumper from back in the day.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Here's a better one, no noises

Ok. Fully understood. Thanks.

The list of benefits states no apex seals which I believe were the bane of the Wankel. Still, the mating surfaces have to see some wear, but not watching the first vid, IDK if that is addressed. Subsequent reading indicates 100,000 hours before overhaul. That's a long time as most of what it would be powering could be past its useful life well before that.

1000 RPM idle with a 25,000 redline. I rather think this is a low torque affair, but again a non-narrated video only serves to show exactly how the thing works, not how it performs.

There were never many details about Jocko Johnson's engine that was a circular affair called the Power Ring. His had 18 'cylinders' and it was supposedly a "3-cycle" operation. It was never actually built that I know of. His claims of power to size and weight were similar. 18 points of combustion suggests a lot of torque.

Johnson focused on the problems inherent to the reciprocal engine. Since he lived in the world of nitro powered piston engines, he wanted to eliminate cranks and rods. These things have worked for us for nearly a century and a half while many alternatives have never really changed anything. When you think about it, that isn't very logical.

The electric motor is perfect. The infrastructure and energy source is not.

I should bear the original video before commenting further.