Hybrids vs EVs
 

This article (Bloomberg, may be paywalled) describes a resurgence of interest in hybrids.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-04/ev-charging-issues-price-drive-hybrid-car-sales?srnd=premium&sref=eCUg41rA

Take the current Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid. 44 miles EV range, 52 mpg as hybrid. Instead of the cost, weight, environmental, and China supply chain penalty of hauling a 250 mile battery on your daily 10-30 mile driving, run on a 44-mile battery. For longer trips, run on gas with high mpg.

Makes a lot of sense, both individually and for the environment.

When I drove our old Prius (gen 2), I never knew what gas prices were - it was almost irrelevant. If we had a current plug-in Prius (or similar), I would almost never touch a pump except on roadtrips. Gas could be $10/gal and I wouldn't care.

Toyota hybrid is peak automotive engineering.

Get 41 mpg in our 3 row highlander, reliable and reasonably priced.

Meanwhile 6000lb 100k 1000hp sedans will save us

no idea why the Prius gets such a bad rep (i do, but i try not to pay attention to what insecure men care about). it really is the peak of car for basic transportation. the gen2s really nailed it. amazing automobiles. fantastically reliable. 45mpg all day every day.

and totally agree with the stupidity of 4000lbs+ 400+hp ICE "sports cars" terrible to drive. cover up terrible to drive by adding more power to lower the numbers ... not the answer. in big/powerful cars, the EV is 100% better.

if ICE is to survive in automobiles, it will be the small light sports cars. its the only place ICE has an advantage over EV/hybrid.

EV ideologist fear that hybrid users would not use the battery powered motor as much as they could.
They just aren't zealous enough.

The couple prius owners I know get well above 50 mpg with the last gen model. Like I said I get 41mpg in our much larger highlander hybrid, but I have to try a little bit. More like 34-36 if you ignore the gamification of mpg the car encourages.

Hmn hybrd or EV? If only there was a perfect engineering compromise.......oh yeah toyota perfected that too Prius and Rav 4 prime. Just makes a ton more sense than an actual EV at this point...for 97.9 percent of the population.

As far as I'm aware, PHEVs haven't gone for than around 20 miles on their batteries until the last year or two, but I don't follow all brands on this issue. Now they're going 40-50 miles on the battery, which is a game changer IMO. They're typically rated in the 80-120 MPGe range, but I'd like to see the actual cost per mile or miles per dollar. Obviously, the cost to charge a battery varies a lot, with solar being typically free and an EV rate plan with a utility being second best (which is what I have).

If your daily driving falls under 40-50 miles (or even if it's not that much more), a PHEV is a great solution. I suspect it blows away 40-50 mpg on a regular hybrid.

I think the plug-in hybrid is a better system than the Chevy Volt system. I love my Volt. Hardly ever put gas in it. But I think Toyota out-engineered GM on this one.

yes but did those engineers have degrees? :rolleyes::D

Curious why you think so. I got 40mpg in mine after the battery ran out.

I wish to thank those who have electrics and hybrids for saving the fuel that I burn in my lovely sounding V-8 Mustang.

The toyota ecvt system is engineering brilliance. I think fords system is similar but took a while to get there. Tons of youtubes on how it works if you like this sort of thing. This is the route of my earlier statement of peak automotive engineering. Boring, simple, and usefull.

The CVT aspect has no actual gear shifts or changing of pullies, belts, or clutches. It is a differential drive on a single planetary gear set with the IC engine, 2 motors, and the output. The effective ratio is varied by the relative speeds of the motors which can add power or harvest power in the process.

A partial hybrid drive makes a lot of sense.
Partial acceleration is where the ICE motor becomes most complex and least efficient.
Especially for heavier vehicles..

The triple alternator/motor/starter would accomplish that.
Or rear hub motor.
A couple extra batteries would do the trick.

My proof that nature has a sense of humor: our 4cyl fwd cvt tragically aspirated hybrid has a sport button

Even Hellcats need to be schooled now and then.

I've often thought that a hybrid makes far more sense, at least for most of us in the US.

I think it was 5-7 years ago that I was in NYC and it seemed that most taxis were Priuses or a small hybrid minivan (don't remember the model). I have to assume that if a Prius works as a taxi in NYC that it must be an amazing vehicle. I've ridden in one once, a colleague's wife got one and he brought it to work one day and drove me to lunch in it. My other experience with a prius was when one had an impromptu race (probably only up to 40-45mph) with me in my turbo miata. I won easily, but it put in a decent performance all things considered. If I had still be driving my NA miata, I'm not sure how it would have turned out.

A prius is not for me, but I suspect they are great appliance vehicles.

If the auto companies were really more interested in reducing global warming, hybrids make more sense in the short-term than EVs.

https://www.thedrive.com/features/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-heres-why

However, it has been reported that EVs will, in general, need a cost-prohibitive battery replacements at approximately 100k miles, and this built-in "planned obsolesce" would be great for the auto manufacturers.

I'll be holding on to my gasoline-powered daily driver as long as I can, and my wife's next car will likely be a hybrid, not an EV.

My daily driver gets 25-40 mpg, depending on how much highway driving I do, and has 400-500 mile range. After a 10-minute fill-up it can go another 400-500 miles. Until an EV can do that, it a no go for me.

I've driven from the NY area to Savannah GA in one day (because I have grown to hate airlines) - show me an EV that can do that.

My thinking is also that EVs are just a stop-gap between gasoline-powered and hydrogen-powered cars.

Which is impressive. I commute in my Boxster S. My commute is ~84 miles, and 99% on I10 or similar so my avg speed is usually ~72mph. I don't "try" to get good mileage, I probably hit 100mph a half a dozen times per trip (each direction, no downshifting, just accelerate in 6th). I usually average 22mpg. I think Porsche said that I could get 23mpg highway. I suspect if I worked at it, I could get 23-25mpg (drive slower, use hypermiler tactics).

I'm sure there's a way to change the button to "Turbo" which is what you really need.

Porsche Taycan
Porsche Taycan Turbo
Porsche Taycan Turbo S

I think this is brilliant marketing to idiots.

New Prius finally looks good. My TDI keeps giving 36-42 mpg and its paid for.

My current "daily" (W140-S420) is running/driving well but I have been thinking about my next daily.

Right now a gently used Hybrid Lexus seem like a sensible option (spending a whole lot less on gas also sounds really good). Or I may buy something like a late model Mazda 3 sedan and keep things simple. Pure EV's are generally a royal PITA & very expensive is Aus.

I thought you guys all drove Outbacks.

lol... Not all of us ;)

My understanding is the ICE engine in Toyota's PEH has some ability to charge the battery. I may be wrong.
All the Volt ICE can do is maintain the charge level you choose when you manually switch to gas power. I typically use the ICE when I'm on an interstate going a steady speed and save the battery for in-town driving. It would be great if the ICE could bleed off a little of the power it is generating in steady-speed driving to increase the charge level.
After driving on the battery, I find the noise and vibration of the ICE annoying. It's funny that the engine noise in the Volt is annoying, but I love the sounds my Porsches make.

Wonder if there is an economy button in a hellcat to complete the circle of absurdity

Hybrids just encourage frugal driving, the menus and instruments are set up to gamify it. Still a boring car but adds a small element of entertainment. One of the biggest perks this summer has been the electric AC though. With 3 young kids I am waiting in the car a lot in pick up lines and the eternity it takes a whole family to strap in. Nice freezing ac without idling the car.

I put no effort into optimizing fuel economy in the Cayman. Hardly even pay attention to it but my indicator has always read above 20mpg not too bad for 365hp and a heavy foot.

Prius styling always turned me off, which is why we went with a Lexus CT200h: Toyota hybrid engineering in a car that looks more like a "Hot-Hatch" than it does a hybrid.

It's nine years old now and approaching 150K miles, and is not only bulletproof (knock on wood) but still delivers 45-50 mpg in the type of driving we do. Oh, and the styling has aged quite well, too, so it still looks like a fairly new car.

We still love the GX, and the War Department adores her second-gen Ridgeline, but I don't see the little Lexus going anywhere for a long while.

_

I remember reading that the Prius styling was modeled from a gold fish for its high volume /low drag coefficient shape.

I’ve always liked the Lexus styling too.

I prefer hybrids to EVs. My wife's SUV is a plug-in hybrid. She gets 40ish miles all electric, then 40-45mpg; pretty damn good for an SUV.

If we NEVER took road trips, an all electric would be fine...but we do, so it's not ;)

i dont really understand this point of view. everyone i know with an EV goes on road trips way more often than other people .. because its functionally free.

might take you an extra hour or two to get somewhere after a day of driving ... but who cares, its free.

Are superchargers free still?

It is cheaper to take a road trip in a prius than any tesla. Do the math, 56mpg on the freeway, be sure to include depreciation insurance and tire cost and maintenance. I would say include the value of your time and for frustration with in op chargers and the like but prius still wins without those bennifits.

no its not. its much cheaper to road trip in a telsa than anything gas powered. its less than 20 dollars a day, and even a prius is going to be 40-50 a day. any kind of truck/SUV is going to be well over 100 a day.

So if you have a Tesla and you fill it up at Harris Ranch, does that make it a diesel hybrid?

Asking for a friend...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1696530878.jpg

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-supercharger-location-diesel-generator-report-1850804146?fbclid=IwAR2Q3QNL00P_yOrbmqAY7MOpFaY0ZE eLh8bO5XdmoVgkp-iKUimJ50w9jdw

Cost per mile for prius gas vs supercharger electricity is a tiny bit higher for a prius depending on a 1000 other variables of course.

everything else is substantially cheaper on a prius tires, insurance, depreciation. Occasional 30$ oil changes for the prius occasional 1500$ new screen for the tesla, we'll call a wash.

cost aside long haul Roadtripping an EV is a hug compromise over IC, it deliberately obtuse to suggest otherwise.

it not though.



i dont get it. where is the compromise? have a free road trip, elon does the driving, or get there an hour sooner and pay 100+ bucks a day for the privledge? thats a deal.

teslas make for pretty ideal road trip cars.

Prius = 550+ mile range (that's over six-and-a-half hours at 80 mph!), then maybe ten minutes to fill the tank, take a leak, grab a snack and get back on the road.

Oh, and you failed to figure in the additional cost of a night in a hotel, a result of the well-recognized broken/slow/already-in-use-and-several-cars-ahead-of you-at-the charging station syndrome.

_

No, but there's a black key that limits the car to 500 hp. So, if you see a teenager at the wheel, it's really game on.

Not detailing the math for you, its all over the internet. cost per supercharger depends on area but its works out to about 10c per mile at .25c per kWh as a google indicated median. About 12c a mile for prius gas again depending. Its comparable. This thread is about Hybrids vs EVs not f150s.

So barely any cheaper energy cost than a Prius, not free. Everything else is more expensive in the tesla.

Not really commenting on compromises since this is so plainly obvious to literally almost everyone. Even my wifes super tesla fanatic friend. Model S model X for the husband and their 10yo sienna tucked in the corner of the drive for the occasional road trip

If you use the gas engine to charge the battery, it'll be less efficient. Volts get around 40 mpg (highway in my experience) and around 100 mpge. Still, it would have been nice to have the option to charge the battery regardless of efficiency so you'd have more quiet miles available before the next plug in. I don't think lacking this feature means "Toyota out-engineered GM," though.

I have free supercharging for life on my Model S. Drove from LA to Seattle, Drove around for a week, then drove back to LA. One the way even out pulled a Z06 who wanted to play alittle. It cost me nothing. Left Sunday Morning, got to Seattle Monday afternoon. In a gas car I would've left Sunday Morning and gotten to Seattle Monday morning. Right now the average gas price for premium fuel in California is a little over 6 bucks.....I think I'll hang onto the Tesla for awhile. Oh and maintenance. In 97K, other then tires I've spent 790 dollars.

Addmittingly, my car is an earlier car, thus the free supercharging. My wife's newer model 3 charges significantly faster and has longer range, but no free supercharging.